Job cost?

[growler]

we are full of geeks who don't know how to price...plumbing is fairly simply, hasn't really changed in 100 years, yet, they got their act together on pricing...

Plumbers have an advantage right from the start. It's the law of supply and demand. Since I was young I have herd about a shortage of electricians but this is not true there has always been a glut of electricians with a temporary shortage in certain areas at certain times.

People get into plumbing to make money or because it's the family business but not all that many people just decide to become a plumber because it looks like a good clean job.

There are all sort of organizations that are training electricians by the bus load. Every areas has tech schools that crank out electrical apprentices and then there is the military and industry that provide electrical training to maintenance staff.

In this area the number of electrical contractors has doubled in the last 20 years and the number of plumbing contractors has stayed basically the same. I can only imagine how things would be if the electrical contractors in an area were halved. It certainly would cut down on the competition.

I think we have actually helped the plumbers out by attaching a stigma to the profession. No one wishes to get into a profession that's considered to be dumb and dirty unless they are smart enough to consider the advantages of less competition. They don't have to show that crack for free.

The law of supply and demand is actually more important than technical skills when it comes to price. In Russia they trained lots of doctors so the medical profession was not really an exclusive one. They didn't receive the compensation that American doctors do.

 

[aline]

This is 6 hrs to change devices, and at least 2 hrs round trip. If the travel time is included in the 6 figure, that leaves 4 hrs to change 50 devices and 50 covers.

This job should sell for over a grand......easy.

I doubt anyone could change all 50 devices and plates in less than 5 hrs, 6 for that matter, on a site unseen job.

Your nuts.

Honestly, I think you work pretty slowly. You've gotta pick up the pace. Not many people wanna pay $800 bucks for device change. If using "standard" devices on a changeout, I estimate at 5-6 bucks per device.(not including plates) I can average around 60-80 bucks an hour that way. That's giving you about 3-4 minutes per opening, which is plenty of time to changeout a device. I can change out a regular house pretty quickly, even when pigtailing to eliminate backstabs, I can average 60-80 bucks an hour.

McClary can do 50 devices in 2.5 to 3.3 hours at a price of $250 to $300. You're just old and slow.

 

[macmikeman]

I'm not going to pick on any one poster, cause you know who you are anyway. There are lots of you types. Here is my challenge- copy the picture post I did here in this thread. Make it your screensaver for one year. Stare at it often as you reflect on the wide happy smiles of the two succesful electrical contractors. Let it get absorbed into your brain slowly (this takes a longer while for some than others...). I bet in one year you will start to change your thinking based on your screensaver subliminal message :grin:

 

[mtfallsmikey]

Plumbers have an advantage right from the start. It's the law of supply and demand. Since I was young I have herd about a shortage of electricians but this is not true there has always been a glut of electricians with a temporary shortage in certain areas at certain times.

People get into plumbing to make money or because it's the family business but not all that many people just decide to become a plumber because it looks like a good clean job.

There are all sort of organizations that are training electricians by the bus load. Every areas has tech schools that crank out electrical apprentices and then there is the military and industry that provide electrical training to maintenance staff.

In this area the number of electrical contractors has doubled in the last 20 years and the number of plumbing contractors has stayed basically the same. I can only imagine how things would be if the electrical contractors in an area were halved. It certainly would cut down on the competition.

I think we have actually helped the plumbers out by attaching a stigma to the profession. No one wishes to get into a profession that's considered to be dumb and dirty unless they are smart enough to consider the advantages of less competition. They don't have to show that crack for free.

The law of supply and demand is actually more important than technical skills when it comes to price. In Russia they trained lots of doctors so the medical profession was not really an exclusive one. They didn't receive the compensation that American doctors do.

Not in my area....more plumbers than electricians! My primary background, as well as my father/grandfather, is plumbing. As I was growing up, working in Dad's mechanical contracting biz, my brother and I were put with the electricians, bricklayers, plasterers (dating myself!) and roofers...Dad wanted us to know how to do a little of everything. That's how I wound up getting my Master electrician license, as well as others, and it has paid off very well for me. With the plumbers, several forward-thinkers in the last 20 yrs. or so, sold biz books, did seminars on using flat rate, and accurately figuring labor based on your cost of doing buisiness. Many got on board..not a collusion thing. Being a full-time electrician, figuring out the NEC, etc. is the most technologically challenging trade...heck, I would have to go thru the entire apprenticeship program to pass a test now...almost need an engineering degree to figure it all out.... but there are a lot of hacks out there. Then, there are many who simply do not return phone calls, treat customers fairly, on and on. My wife went thru 4 electrical contractors before finding one who would return the calls...installing BB in her rental house (I don't have time to fool with it!). A $3400 job......Does your labor cover all of your costs??...inventory, medical insurance, paid vacation, vehicle expenses, taxes? If it doesn't, raise your prices, or get out. Your expenses haven't gone down just because there is a recession did they?

 

[MarkyMarkNC]

I have a hard time believing that plumbers are doing any better than electricians. Looking at the local Craigslist ads, I see three times as many plumbers as electricians advertising "cheap rates."

Oh......and you guys that would take longer than 4 hrs. to swap out 50 devices are obviously old and out of shape

 

[Dnkldorf]

Oh......and you guys that would take longer than 4 hrs. to swap out 50 devices are obviously old and out of shape

I'll give you the out of shape and old.

But how can you change 50 devices in 4 hrs? site unseen?

This isn't like installing 50 devices in track homes on a swivel stool.

 

[satcom]

I have a hard time believing that plumbers are doing any better than electricians. Looking at the local Craigslist ads, I see three times as many plumbers as electricians advertising "cheap rates."

Oh......and you guys that would take longer than 4 hrs. to swap out 50 devices are obviously old and out of shape

Anyone can run an ad claiming cheap rates, the real world hard facts are most of those advertising cheap rates, will deliver either less the desired results, or end up costing more.

I went thru some of our actuals records, and the times varied depending on job conditions, type of system, age of wiring, access, and material, it is best to look these jobs over, before giving an estimate, the times varied for each outlet, and the age and shape of the workers also varied, real world, after looking at actual results, if I had to pull up an average time, the middle average would be closer to 6 hours, if all conditions were perfect, open room, all circuits marked, and proper conductor length, in every box, no extension rings, and box fill, but contractors with experience know what to look for, and they will usually allow a bit more time on these change outs.

 

[growler]

Oh......and you guys that would take longer than 4 hrs. to swap out 50 devices are obviously old and out of shape

That's it exactly. A man typically uses his body until that starts to go downhill and then for some mysterious reason his brain kicks in and starts to work. For some reason back and knee pain bring about an "epiphany" about life and he ask himself just what he has been trying to prove and to whom he has been trying to prove it.

You wouldn't believe the number of old guys that ask themselves why they spent years working twice as hard to make half the money they could have made. :grin::grin:

 

[aline]

Anyone can run an ad claiming cheap rates, the real world hard facts are most of those advertising cheap rates, will deliver either less the desired results, or end up costing more.

Here's a video of some contractors that run ads with cheap rates.
http://video.msn.com/video.aspx/?mk...953-78e0-4716-a6d8-1a57f23b05ae&wa=wsignin1.0

 

[Dnkldorf]

Here's a video of some contractors that run ads with cheap rates.
http://video.msn.com/video.aspx/?mk...953-78e0-4716-a6d8-1a57f23b05ae&wa=wsignin1.0

That has nothing to do with contractors running adds with cheap rates. It pointed to one add, and no idea was given to how much that add cost.

It would seem you may be implying that contractors that used smaller, less expensive advertising mediums are nothing but drug using, sex offendering, criminals.

We all know that ain't true.

 

[aline]

That has nothing to do with contractors running adds with cheap rates. It pointed to one add, and no idea was given to how much that add cost.

It would seem you may be implying that contractors that used smaller, less expensive advertising mediums are nothing but drug using, sex offendering, criminals.

We all know that ain't true.

You're right and I didn't mean to imply that.
Poor choice of words on my part.

Contractors who's price seems too low to be true are likely to pull a bait and switch or don't plan on completing the job. Then again I wouldn't consider the guys in the video contractors.

 

[mtfallsmikey]

I have a hard time believing that plumbers are doing any better than electricians. Looking at the local Craigslist ads, I see three times as many plumbers as electricians advertising "cheap rates."

Oh......and you guys that would take longer than 4 hrs. to swap out 50 devices are obviously old and out of shape

Ask any tradesman who's been in the game for 25 yrs. or so about being old and out of shape...after the arthritis sets in your hands, or having diabetes, high blood pressure, etc. Young bucks can move faster than us geezers, but we can go longer...You youngsters make sure you charge enough for your work so you afford to retire, and not try to be the cheapest contractor in town.

 

[ptonsparky]

Ask any tradesman who's been in the game for 25 yrs. or so about being old and out of shape...after the arthritis sets in your hands, or having diabetes, high blood pressure, etc. Young bucks can move faster than us geezers, but we can go longer...You youngsters make sure you charge enough for your work so you afford to retire, and not try to be the cheapest contractor in town.

Pretty much why I would figure on 8 hours. I realized 15 years ago that I couldn't do it all by myself and didn't want to anymore. I hired younger guys, pay them a decent wage, and we share the work. Which means I can take the scenic route back if I want to.

 

[mjf]

Standard rates on switchouts

Standard rates on switchouts

I charge $25.00 per device.
Period.

This is enough that when......

-there's furniture in the way
-or the old box is loose and needs to be secured better
-or I need spacers and longer screws
-or there's lots of "specialty" switches, dimmers, or GFCI's
-or add any of the other many things you may find

.......I am still covered to make my money.

AND......when I run into none of these "problems" ----------- I have a nice "walk in the park" day.

So to answer the OP's question

50 devices @ $25.00/device = $1250.00

2 hours, 10 hours.....50 devices= $1250.00 Keep it simple.