Just my two cents, pls correct me if I'm wrong

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electrofelon said:
It will have, just not done yet.
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We had an outhouse at a lady’s house where we stayed often.
Hated it.. it was either cold, or you worried about what was in it. Never got stung on the derrière, but was always scared of the wasps in the outhouse. It was a constant battle to keep them out.
Did get stung on the head, neck are a few times Opening the door.
 
Hv&Lv said:
We had an outhouse at a lady’s house where we stayed often.
Hated it.. it was either cold, or you worried about what was in it. Never got stung on the derrière, but was always scared of the wasps in the outhouse. It was a constant battle to keep them out.
Did get stung on the head, neck are a few times Opening the door.
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I kinda prefer it honestly. No concern about clogging, making a mess, less cleaning, lower stress IMO. Some mice live under mine, and poke there heads in now and then.........
 
jaggedben said:
Why reinvent the wheel when PV Watts is more accurate and reliable and conservative enough to base an investment decision on? Just sayin.



It's a little unclear to me what exactly you're trying to say about salespeople, but here's my two cents:

First, putting solar panels flush to the north side of a house may or may not be cost-effective in any given situation. It should not be dismissed out of hand as snake oil salesmanship. I've seen some northside installs that I definitely thought were suspect. I've also installed panels for people on north (more often northeast or northwest) facing roofs when it was plenty cost-effective for them. We've also tilted them back to the south plenty of times, but sometimes aesthetic or cost reasons (engineering) make that not the best choice. Every project deserves its own consideration of the factors involved.

Second, there are surely some dishonest or unknowledgable salespeople in the solar industry, as there are in any industry. But I hope your comments are not intended to refer to the whole industry, which also has plenty of honest and well meaning people and companies.
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Yeah, solar does seem like snake oil to me. It might be a bias, based on that one smooth dude I met at the HD. A sample size of one is not reliable.

But, one day we got 12 scam calls that went from sales to threats of arrest to "we won a lottery." It seems like a Golden Age of Crooks.

I'd say 2/3 of the people you meet at random will try to take you but I've never seen an official survey on this ratio. It also depends on if someone old and slow (me) comes across as an easy mark.

I had a circuit designed once by computer, over the phone lines. The company president was impressed.
So then they wanted to build it from stock room parts that were left over.
I said, "It won't work."
The marketing guy said, "No problem, we'll just argue with the customer until he buys it."
And he did and they did.

Anyway, the average US house takes a kw of power so this is 8800 kWh of energy per year.
I guess a "quality factor" for panels would be, What percent of this total can be supplied by panels?
 
WasGSOHM said:
Yeah, solar does seem like snake oil to me. It might be a bias, based on that one smooth dude I met at the HD. A sample size of one is not reliable.
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No it's not a meaningful sample size. And just because you might meet a sleazy person selling cars or insurance does not mean those are snake oil products.

Anyway, the average US house takes a kw of power so this is 8800 kWh of energy per year.
I guess a "quality factor" for panels would be, What percent of this total can be supplied by panels?
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It's going to vary a lot by region but in my experience for the majority of houses 100% is easily met.
 
WasGSOHM said:
Um. . .I think I'll go back and look for that HD guy. . .:(

How much does your PoCo want for a kWh? Ours does about $0.15 per.

From the shadow your panels are facing south, yes?
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That is why they are pretty common in CA, higher rates plus plenty of sun in a lot of places. My rate is a little over $.07. Is a $1.50 demand charge per kW also. I don't see it being greatest payback in this area, and there isn't much PV around. Where there is and some more are currently in planning or under construction, it is straight production and not offsetting other load on same service. Those need coordinated with POCO and they want you to be able to supply certain demands before they make better rate deals with you.
 
This back-and-forth is bringing up mental reservations for me that I didn't know I had.

Generally, more complexity = higher failure rate, but I know better than to ask makers for their MTBF data.

So, I'm skittish about signing contracts with powerful orgs that can afford lobbyists and I'm skittish about the hidden costs of ownership.

We have two layers of shingles on our roof so it'll be a while B4 we need roof work, but you guys have given me some questions to ask and things to think about, if I ever want to pull the trigger on one of these.

Thanks for your input. :)
 
WasGSOHM said:
This back-and-forth is bringing up mental reservations for me that I didn't know I had.

Generally, more complexity = higher failure rate, but I know better than to ask makers for their MTBF data.

So, I'm skittish about signing contracts with powerful orgs that can afford lobbyists and I'm skittish about the hidden costs of ownership.

We have two layers of shingles on our roof so it'll be a while B4 we need roof work, but you guys have given me some questions to ask and things to think about, if I ever want to pull the trigger on one of these.

Thanks for your input. :)
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It sure where your from, but the states with the most solar offer the best subsidies and incentives. That’s the only reason places like Cali and others are booming in solar.

take a guess as to why NC is second to Cali in installed solar...
NC had awesome subsidies until they let the state incentives expire and didn’t renew them.
Our solar has slowed WAY down.

I didn’t want to help these solar companies get rich anymore either..
 
WasGSOHM said:
Um. . .I think I'll go back and look for that HD guy. . .:(

How much does your PoCo want for a kWh? Ours does about $0.15 per.

From the shadow your panels are facing south, yes?
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I think our power here is around 12 cents.
My building was built with the solar in mind so yes it's ideally oriented, 36 degree tilt.

IMO if you have the space, building something like I did is the way to go. That whole building with solar system cost far less than it would have cost to put in a " regular" PV system ( not counting my time which is kinda hard to equate to dollars).
 
electrofelon said:
I think our power here is around 12 cents.
My building was built with the solar in mind so yes it's ideally oriented, 36 degree tilt.

IMO if you have the space, building something like I did is the way to go. That whole building with solar system cost far less than it would have cost to put in a " regular" PV system ( not counting my time which is kinda hard to equate to dollars).
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So, did you wrap a building around the solar install or put solar on the building? It looks like it could have been either. Like the A-10 "Warthog", they took a rotary cannon and wrapped a plane around it instead of shoehorning the gun into an existing platform.
 
gadfly56 said:
So, did you wrap a building around the solar install or put solar on the building? It looks like it could have been either. Like the A-10 "Warthog", they took a rotary cannon and wrapped a plane around it instead of shoehorning the gun into an existing platform.
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It is stick built, factory made trusses, and the panels mounted directly on the trusses. There is a system of flashings and gutters to keep the rain out. There are more details in this thread:

My solar system

I have alluded to this in various prior posts, but I thought I would post some pictures and mention some of the creative aspects of it. Ive had this idea brewing for years about building a structure and having the modules be the roof. It just seemed like such a waste to have two roofs! So...
forums.mikeholt.com
 
electrofelon said:
It is stick built, factory made trusses, and the panels mounted directly on the trusses. There is a system of flashings and gutters to keep the rain out. There are more details in this thread:

My solar system

I have alluded to this in various prior posts, but I thought I would post some pictures and mention some of the creative aspects of it. Ive had this idea brewing for years about building a structure and having the modules be the roof. It just seemed like such a waste to have two roofs! So...
forums.mikeholt.com
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That’s got to be the smallest wire I’ve ever seen in a 200 amp elbow...
 
electrofelon said:
not counting my time which is kinda hard to equate to dollars).
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Some people used to say $10 per hour, some say half their wage.

A coin flip decides if you will do it yourself or pay your neighbor.
What amount of dollars per hour would it take for you to be completely indifferent as to which way the coin landed?

This method thanks to D.V. Lindley, the Brit who wrote about Decision Making.

You may be surprised at your own answer. If you ask others who know you, you may be surprised at their answers. Both how much you should paid vs. how much they should be paid.

Just compensation: When I ask a mortgage company to reimburse me a "reasonable sum" for my registered letter plus time and aggravation because they double or triple bill me, they strangely fall silent.

The same silence if I ask them for a sworn statement by a company principal confirming, denying or explaining their conduct.
 
WasGSOHM said:
Some people used to say $10 per hour, some say half their wage.

A coin flip decides if you will do it yourself or pay your neighbor.
What amount of dollars per hour would it take for you to be completely indifferent as to which way the coin landed?

This method thanks to D.V. Lindley, the Brit who wrote about Decision Making.

You may be surprised at your own answer. If you ask others who know you, you may be surprised at their answers. Both how much you should paid vs. how much they should be paid.

Just compensation: When I ask a mortgage company to reimburse me a "reasonable sum" for my registered letter plus time and aggravation because they double or triple bill me, they strangely fall silent.

The same silence if I ask them for a sworn statement by a company principal confirming, denying or explaining their conduct.
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I think the two things that matter is if you have the skills, and you WANT to do it. Regarding the former, I once questioned on this forum a year or so ago why more of you don't put a solar system on your house. You have the skills essentially (yeah PV has a few unique things about it but not rocket science for an experienced electrician).

Regarding the "want", it's not just about dollars. Yeah theoretically It's pretty much not worth me doing ANYTHING at home or on my property as I make more than most other trades. BUT, I enjoy working on my own place and can only stand a certain amount of work for money.
 
"A utility function is a representation to define individual preferences for goods or services beyond the explicit monetary value of those goods or services. In other words, it is a calculation for how much someone desires something, and it is relative."

I have a high utility for chocolate ice cream and low utility for healthy foods, regardless of the price.

And utility is measured in. . . what else. . .?,
\/
\/
Utiles!
\/
\/
(more stuff from that Brit).
 
WasGSOHM said:
Some people used to say $10 per hour, some say half their wage.

A coin flip decides if you will do it yourself or pay your neighbor.
What amount of dollars per hour would it take for you to be completely indifferent as to which way the coin landed?

This method thanks to D.V. Lindley, the Brit who wrote about Decision Making.

You may be surprised at your own answer. If you ask others who know you, you may be surprised at their answers. Both how much you should paid vs. how much they should be paid.

Just compensation: When I ask a mortgage company to reimburse me a "reasonable sum" for my registered letter plus time and aggravation because they double or triple bill me, they strangely fall silent.

The same silence if I ask them for a sworn statement by a company principal confirming, denying or explaining their conduct.
Click to expand...

I’ve done things myself that I was so slow at, I figured my time was worth a fraction of the minimum wage. The satisfaction of knowing I did it myself and it was done right made it worth it.
 
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