Kidde i2060 and KN-COSM-IB

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celtic

celtic

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NJ
Today, I installed 6 smoke alarms (i2060) and 2 co alarms (KN-COSM-IB) for one system. All alarms are on the same circuit. When I pressed the test/hush button to test the installation, NONE of the alarms - other than the one tested - would sound. I pressed the test button on all 8 alarms with no alarms sounded by any other alarm than the one used to initiate the test.
I conducted another test by igniting the instructions in close proximity to a smoke alarm. This one device sounded - but again, NONE of the 7 other devices sounded at all.

Model KN-COSM-IB ? Talking Alarm?
Combination CO and Smoke Alarm Part # 900-0114 - 120V AC Wire-in

DATASHEET

USERS MANUAL


Model i12060 - Smoke Alarm

DATASHEET
USERS MANUAL


Anyone have any ideas why the interconnect is not funtioning at all?
 
The first thing I thought is sometimes you have to hold the test button then the others will kick in after a few cherps.

Perhaps the somkes and CO's are not compatible. Try with the CO's unhooked.

Maybe a bad unit. Try unhooking one at a time until the remaing work.

Goodluck.
 
active1 said:
The first thing I thought is sometimes you have to hold the test button then the others will kick in after a few cherps.
Click to expand...

We held that stupid button down for about a minute at each location :mad:


active1 said:
Perhaps the somkes and CO's are not compatible. Try with the CO's unhooked.
Click to expand...
I thought that also...BUT...the pdf's show them as compatible.
Tom'row (and I had planned a nice of car washing and playing with my kids) I'll be doing just that.....but that doesn't explain why the ALL the devices wouldn't work?
If it were a compatibility issue, devices of the same style *should* sound.....unless, of course, I baked them :mad:


active1 said:
Maybe a bad unit. Try unhooking one at a time until the remaing work.
Click to expand...
That'll be happening tom'row also.
If it were just one unit FUBARed..I could accept that - but all 8?



active1 said:
Goodluck.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the reply :)
 
I'm using the kidde Model KN-COSM-IB – Talking Alarm™ and PI 2000 with no issues, not sure if the i12060 is giving you the problem or not... but I would probably give a shot out to customer care #1-800-880-6788.

Also...

CAUTION! THIS UNIT WILL NOT FUNCTION WITHOUT A PROPERLY
INSTALLED BATTERY, AND IS EQUIPPED WITH A BATTERY LOCKOUT FEATURE
WHICH PREVENTS THE BATTERY CARRIER FROM CLOSING IF A BATTERY
IS NOT INSTALLED CORRECTLY.


I installed smokes in a house once and all the batteries were installed with wrong polarity from the factory... worth a check..
 
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stickboy1375 said:
I'm using the kidde Model KN-COSM-IB – Talking Alarm™ and PI 2000 with no issues, not sure if the i12060 is giving you the problem or not... but I would probably give a shot out to customer care #1-800-880-6788.
Click to expand...
Thanks Stickboy.

My first post is a shortened version of the email I sent them over at Kidde.

The supply house (at least where I purchased these items) is closed tom'row...so Kidde can wait until Monday for a phone call - in the mean time, tom'row is "take 'em down - put 'em up" day...and try and figure WTF is going on here.



I've noticed that the install prf's all seem to say:
Make certain alarms are wired to a continuous (non-switched) power line...

Does that mean you can't t-tap the devices?
It doesn't explicitly say "do not t-tap".

I can't see t-tapping being an issue with this type of device...not like they are addressable or anything
 
celtic said:
Thanks Stickboy.




I've noticed that the install prf's all seem to say:
Make certain alarms are wired to a continuous (non-switched) power line...

Does that mean you can't t-tap the devices?
It doesn't explicitly say "do not t-tap".

I can't see t-tapping being an issue with this type of device...not like they are addressable or anything
Click to expand...

No, that means dont feed the smokes in series with a disconnect, other than a breaker... check out my edited post above,
also I would check every quick connect harness, depending on who installed them, they may not be tight... had this problem ALOT with helpers...
 
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stickboy1375 said:
No, that means dont feed the smokes in series with a disconnect, other than a breaker...
Click to expand...

That's what I'm thinking also.

stickboy1375 said:
check out my edited post above,
Click to expand...
I had to open one CO's battery compartment...the yellow flag broke inside...I shoulda known right then and there this would be a PITA ...LOL
They did all test fine...individually.


stickboy1375 said:
also I would check every quick connect harness, depending on who installed them, they may not be tight... had this problem ALOT with helpers...
Click to expand...
Sadly...I did the install.
 
celtic said:
That's what I'm thinking also.


I had to open one CO's battery compartment...the yellow flag broke inside...I shoulda known right then and there this would be a PITA ...LOL
They did all test fine...individually.



Sadly...I did the install.
Click to expand...


I really like the Kidde smokes and CO's, I hope your problem is not product related... it just seems to me that if NONE of the other smokes are talking to each other than something seems to be wrong with with red wire?? thats why I strongly suggest you change the batteries... who knows how long they have been on the shelf...
 
The counterman told me the Firex's had been recalled - I think it's a safe assumption that the Kidde's are flying off ther sheleves....but I'll replace batteries if that is the culprit.

Won't there be a date code stamp onto each device? (Just to verify the age of the stock)


I'm heading over there in about an hour

EDIT:
What the heck.. :) ...I called the 1-800#.

Nice lady told me:
- All Kidde's are comp. w/each other (I figured that)
- No recalls on the Kidde's (I was relived to hear that - but I did check the CPSC site last night)
- No AC can be present of "red" wire (I knew that - but the butchers..I mean rockers...don't)
- I can test each unit by attaching 9v across red/white wires (Knew that also)
- Units DO fail ...but not often (I'm hoping I didn't draw the short straw here)

At this point, I'm hoping the butcher's are to blame ~ any other option would cost ME and this is the last item in a $9500 remodel that has swelled to $20k and I want to get paid(final payments) and move on.
 
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In reading the PDF of Smoke, code to nfpa72, local code , AHJ,
Make sure that all alarms are wired to a single, continious(non-switched) power, with is not protected by a ground fault interrupter. WWT ?

The smoke truely states that they are connectable and states it, the CO is just, "smart interconnection", and only sees "smart", things ? :)

Could it be the smoke needs to see the power first, Doh !
Seems also to be multiples of 3's and 6's alot, but was not said, just up to 24...

quote: typo
 
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Alternately, just pull down one detector with the circuit breaker off, and put a 9 volt battery on the white and red and see if the rest of the units sound. That will rule out your inductance theory at the same time too.
 
From a Kidde workbook I got a while back:

"During a smoke alarm event, all interconnected models which are equipped with smoke sensing capabilities, will transmit or respond to a constant 9V DC (+/-2V) voltage on the interconnect line. (Interconnect signal return path and reference is the AC neutral)
During a CO alarm event, all of the models which are equipped with CO sensing capabilities, will transmit or respond to a series of 9V DC (+/-2V) pulses on the interconnect line (Interconnect signal return path and reference is the AC neutral line)
Smoke alarms that are interconnected with CO alarms will ignore the CO interconnect signal.
CO alarm models KN-COB-IC, and KN-COP-IC will also respond to the smoke alarm interconnect signal (constant 9V DC) and will sound the smoke alarm temporal pattern. Model KN-COP-IC will display “FIRE” on the digital display."


I also notice that your CO detector is part of the "intelligent interconnect" system, and the smokes might not be. I'm still puzzling on that.
 
IF there an induced voltage...do you think I will have any better results with a different brand?

This is the FIRST time I have used Kidde's ...usually use BRK or Firex w/o incident...and possible not even that!
 
All I know is what the nice lady told me today - "All Kidde's are compatible w/each other".

Maybe the "i" (i2060), is an indication of the "Intelligent System" that will allow interconnectivity between a dual alarm model (KN) and a single alarm (i2060)?
 
Very strange you cannot get them to work.... I've installed the KN-COSM-IB – Talking Alarm™ and the i12060 before with no problems... so I know they work together... FWIW, my smokes are always installed on there own circuit, with no AFCI protection...

If you remember how you wired your smokes from start to finish, I would make sure you have continuity from the first smoke to the last on the red wire...
 
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celtic said:
All I know is what the nice lady told me today - "All Kidde's are compatible w/each other".

Maybe the "i" (i2060), is an indication of the "Intelligent System" that will allow interconnectivity between a dual alarm model (KN) and a single alarm (i2060)?
Click to expand...
I believe the "i" is an indication that the model is an ionization type.
 
Celtic
Having an induced voltage for this type of installation is most likely a common installation...so I believe you can rule out the induced voltage as an issue.

IMO, this really leaves you just a couple of options for trouble shooting.
1. Check the continuity of all of the conductors between units (which I believe you already have done). Make sure there is an open in the circuit as well by opening the conductors...you could have a dead short in the signaling conductor.

2. As Marc has stated, use a 9volt battery and see if you can get a response from any of the units. Try doing this from several the units, not just from one location.
If this does not work, try this: buy 3 new units. rig them up on a table or the floor and wire them... then test them with battery and actual 120v power...see if they work. If they do, and the ones in the ceiling do not, maybe you have a few defective units (it happens) and they need to be replaced.

3. Check the batteries in the units (you may have done this already).

Good luck, I know I would have already changed out the units by now myself...I do not drink as much JOLT as you do, and have much less patience with this kind of issue. :wink:
 
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