Kidde i2060 and KN-COSM-IB

[celtic]

Celtic
Having an induced voltage for this type of installation is most likely a common installation...so I believe you can rule out the induced voltage as an issue.

If the voltage is not induced...I have a major problem ~ the installation was not done properly. I can see that happening as one of the guys (who worked on the second floor where the smokes start) tightened the clamps a bit too tight...I pray he wasn't as zealous with the staples.

1. Check the continuity of all of the conductors between units (which I believe you already have done). Make sure there is an open in the circuit as well by opening the conductors...you could have a dead short in the signaling conductor.

Done ....twice.

2. As Marc has stated, use a 9volt battery and see if you can get a response from any of the units. Try doing this from several the units, not just from one location.
If this does not work, try this: buy 3 new units. rig them up on a table or the floor and wire them... then test them with battery and actual 120v power...see if they work. If they do, and the ones in the ceiling do not, maybe you have a few defective units (it happens) and they need to be replaced.

Buying new units was not an option this weekend - supply house is closed.
All the units and tails are "down" at this point...a 9v test is the first item on today's (yes, today) list. I'm basically booked Monday - Thursday...and the people move in on the 29th of Sept. ...not many days left.

3. Check the batteries in the units (you may have done this already).

Nope...not done ....but will do

Good luck, I know I would have already changed out the units by now myself...I do not drink as much JOLT as you do, and have much less patience with this kind of issue. :wink:

When the HO and GC are in/out all today, one must "appear" to be patient - even though we dread the inevitable...... I just hope my worst fear does not appear.

 

[Pierre C Belarge]

Celtic
You are not located too far from me. If you are looking for a hand, call me...I will help (maybe really be a hindrance, but I will buy the JOLT).

 

[celtic]

Thanks a million Pierre

Found the problem/s..fixed 'em...moved on

The #1 tip from all this:
As Marc has stated, use a 9volt battery and see if you can get a response from any of the units. Try doing this from several the units, not just from one location.


I had all the alarms on the counter, wired to scraps on THHN....hit the test button: THEY ALL WORKED

When I started installing them, I tested each one as I went (w/power OFF), the previous alarm/s sounded...all the way from top to bottom of the house.

I left the last one out, checked for cont.: B-N-R-G all continuity ...that's a good thing because it mimicked the readings from one unit sitting on the countertop

Turned power ON (last one still out) took some readings....nothing exciting.

Popped the last one in, hit test and was pleased to hear the whole house erupting with BEEPS and "FIRE FIRE" . Turned power ON - same noisy commotion after hitting test button.


Again...

THANKS TO ALL

EDIT:
There is no G on a smoke

 

[mdshunk]

So.... what was the problem originally that you fixed??

 

[celtic]

So.... what was the problem originally that you fixed??

Nicked wires causing a ground fault on the 9v dc ...I assume:-?

I am assuming the nicks were sever enough to ground fault the red dc voltage and not allow interconnectivity.

Of the 8 locations:
(2nd flr)
1 location had 2-14/2's (feeding in/out) 1-14/3~ Nicked at clamp
1 locations had 3-14/3s ....2 nicked
1 location had 2-14/3's...all "ok"
(1st flr)
2 locations had cut-in plastic 4" rounds, each w/1-14/3...no damage
1 location had 3-14/3s...1 nicked
(Basement)
2 locations...ok


I sent voltage right down to the basement locations, bypassing the red in all other locations. The basement ceiling is wide open....these wires were not nicked or damaged in any way. I was able to read 41.8v on the red w/o it even being connected to anything. This was the same reading taken at the locations of 2nd flr.
After repairing the nicks, I sent voltage across the red wires. I was now able to read 41.8v on the black.

Taking the wire with the 41.8v on it, and grounding it out did NOT trip the breaker. This is where I got the induced voltage idea from.


One of the first things I had done was take a continity reading across the B-R-N on the smokes. I knew that the induced voltage would dissipate when the smoke was installed. BUT the GF would not be remedied by simply installing the device.

 

[stickboy1375]

I think you better have a talk with your guys on how to strip romex... :grin: what do you guys strip the jacket with?

 

[celtic]

I think you better have a talk with your guys on how to strip romex...

I was thinking the same thing....even wrote it to be posted-but deleted it.
I don't want to go down that road.

:grin: what do you guys strip the jacket with?

A hammer ....what do you use?

 

[mdshunk]

A hammer ....what do you use?

I've seen guys make the "ring" cut on round cable jackets like 14-3 with their T-Strippers. They just squeeze them gently and spin them around the jacket. That method sorta scares me.

 

[cadpoint]

I think you better have a talk with your guys on how to strip romex... :grin: what do you guys strip the jacket with?

Don't hold back now .... Lol

 

[celtic]

Truthfully, we score the sheath with a knife, then "crack" the jacket. Hopefully, you don't penetrate deep enough into insulation to cause any situations at a later date.

This is my knife:

 

[tallguy]

A hammer ....what do you use?

For 14/13 12/3 and 10 whatever? One of those round jobbers (can't lay my hands on a picture) -- 14/12 one side and 10 on the other. Works great for those.

 

[tallguy]

Truthfully, we score the sheath with a knife, then "crack" the jacket. Hopefully, you don't penetrate deep enough into insulation to cause any situations at a later date.

This is my knife:

Hmmmm... That might explain it. :grin:

I've always admired those that can use a utility knife as their only tool for stripping the outer jacket and the insulation from the conductors. If it can't be done consistently, however...

 

[mdshunk]

This is my knife:

That's not a knife. Now, this is a knife:

 

[celtic]

For 14/13 12/3 and 10 whatever? One of those round jobbers (can't lay my hands on a picture) -- 14/12 one side and 10 on the other. Works great for those.

Klien 1412?

That's great for a 2 wire, but a 3wire is round


I know of NO stripper for 14-10, /2-3.

 

[cadpoint]

thats called the Millennium knife

thats called the Millennium knife

This is celtic's knife:

I've worked for companies that specifically state in employee hand book that a razor knife is not allowed. FWIW

Asked a guy to borrow a knife one day, "I never met an electrican without a knife", AH Ok, how about that knife... (ain't been without one since)

Another boss use to refer to them as the "Millennium knife".

 

[celtic]

Another boss use to refer to them as the "Millennium knife".

All I know is:
I bought it at Sears
It's heavy for such a small knife
I'm happy with it

Here's another knife I use:

...has scissors for trimming unruly eyebrow hairs, too

 

[tallguy]

Klien 1412?

Those are "bitchin'" for sure... My favorite tool, although I use the straight handled version.

That's great for a 2 wire, but a 3wire is round

Just mash it in there... it'll work. :roll:

I know of NO stripper for 14-10, /2-3.

Not a stripper per se, but a ripper. T&B 18-223. See page 31 here (warning for dial-up users: 1.5MB)

 

[celtic]

Not a stripper per se, but a ripper. T&B 18-223. See page 31 here (warning for dial-up users: 1.5MB)

T&B 18-223

? Slits outer jacket from Romex and other nonmetallic (NM) sheathed cable.

Model 18-223
? Made from cast aluminum; has replaceable blades.
? For 2 or 3 wire #14, 12, 10 with or without ground.

Model 18-225
? Cable is laid in from side; no threading through end.
? Also sizes and strips wire #16-8 AWG.

What a great weekend.....learned about induced volts in NM...and a 3 wire NM stripper

 

[mdshunk]

What a great weekend.....learned about induced volts in NM...and a 3 wire NM stripper

Utility Tools makes one called a "Bananna Peeler" that's micrometer adjustable that works on 3-wire NM, Tray Cable, and Cord. Let me see if I can get a pic up...

EDIT.. Here we go. They a couple hundred bucks, but just what the doctor ordered if you have a big tray cable job with special order tray cable:

 

[tallguy]

They [cost] a couple hundred bucks, but...

I'm beginning to wonder if Marc owns any tool (or antique code book for that matter) that costs less than $200... :wink: