Kitchen Circuits for New Home

[ramsy]

They make boxes big enough and pigtail it out with 12.

In my area #10 Solid Aluminum was hooked around brass terminals, and worked for years, until jokers came along with pigtails that burned up.

Undersized purple wirenuts are the worst. Copper pigtails are hardly better, with Owner Builders doing 90% of remodels.

You must have some hellacious rivals in good old California. ..because I’ve never seen any of the type of work you complain about.

I can't believe Owner-Builder permits, and GC laborer shops, are exclusive to California

 

[Seven-Delta-FortyOne]

I’ve never seen any of the type of work you complain about.

Neither has anyone else, including anywhere in California.

 

[ramsy]

Neither has anyone else, including anywhere in California.

Of course not, if you’re the one molesting existing construction

It all looks good from your house

 

[hbiss]

They make boxes big enough and pigtail it out with 12.

And I've done exactly that. A deep 4-11/16 with a raised mud ring at a receptacle or switch location for the #10 HR. #12 from there on out. That box is so big you could park your truck in it.

-Hal

 

[Joethemechanic]

“California is like a beautiful wild kid on heroin, high as a kite and thinking she's on top of the world, not knowing she's dying, not believing it even if you show her the marks.”​

The Motorcycle Boy - Rumblefish, by Se Hinton

 

[NJTommy]

One sticking point is the HO may not want a panel anywhere near the kitchen.

People can be a pain, with that said one way I found works best is talk money. That seems to motivate people more then anything else.

 

[Seven-Delta-FortyOne]

Of course not, if you’re the one molesting existing construction

It all looks good from your house

I don’t molest.

Well, that’s not exactly true. Let me rephrase that. I don’t “molest existing construction“.

I may look into it though.

You seem to have some very unique issues in the LA area. I suppose they could be true for that bizarre area, but I don’t know anyone who has encountered much of what you talk about.

I’m not even entirely sure LA is part of the US anymore. I kind of wish some other country would annex it.

 

[jeff48356]

Put it in the basement under the kitchen. I would think you would still be extremely close to where the circuits are feeding

Good idea! The sub-panel would be about 60' away from the main panel (directly across the basement). It would handle the electric range (50A), electric dryer (30A), two SABC's (20A each), refrig (20A), dishwasher/disposal (20A), microwave (20A), and laundry (20A), for a total of 10 spaces. Would a 125A breaker on a 1/0 AL SER feeder work for this?

 

[infinity]

Good idea! The sub-panel would be about 60' away from the main panel (directly across the basement). It would handle the electric range (50A), electric dryer (30A), two SABC's (20A each), refrig (20A), dishwasher/disposal (20A), microwave (20A), and laundry (20A), for a total of 10 spaces. Would a 125A breaker on a 1/0 AL SER feeder work for this?

Take a look at this similar thread:

Load Calculator for Sub-panel

I'm looking at installing a subpanel for a kitchen renovation. For simplicity I'll probably just install a 100 amp sub-panel but if I wanted to calculate the actual load is there an online load calculator available to figure this out?

forums.mikeholt.com

 

[nizak]

My

Take a look at this similar thread:

Load Calculator for Sub-panel

I'm looking at installing a subpanel for a kitchen renovation. For simplicity I'll probably just install a 100 amp sub-panel but if I wanted to calculate the actual load is there an online load calculator available to figure this out?

forums.mikeholt.com

1/0 Al SER is rated for 120A @ 75 deg. You can’t use the 83% rule unless it’s feeding the entire structure.

 

[retirede]

Good idea! The sub-panel would be about 60' away from the main panel (directly across the basement). It would handle the electric range (50A), electric dryer (30A), two SABC's (20A each), refrig (20A), dishwasher/disposal (20A), microwave (20A), and laundry (20A), for a total of 10 spaces. Would a 125A breaker on a 1/0 AL SER feeder work for this?

I think if calculate it, you’ll find that #1AL on 100A will be adequate. Maybe even #2 on a 90.

 

[hbiss]

I’m not even entirely sure LA is part of the US anymore. I kind of wish some other country would annex it.

Don't even see China looking.

-Hal

 

[jeff48356]

I think if calculate it, you’ll find that #1AL on 100A will be adequate. Maybe even #2 on a 90.

ChatGPT told me #2 on 90A is undersized, and it suggested 1/0 and 125A. I didn't know they made #1 SER cable.

 

[Greg1707]

Good idea! The sub-panel would be about 60' away from the main panel (directly across the basement). It would handle the electric range (50A), electric dryer (30A), two SABC's (20A each), refrig (20A), dishwasher/disposal (20A), microwave (20A), and laundry (20A), for a total of 10 spaces. Would a 125A breaker on a 1/0 AL SER feeder work for this?

This subpanel will carry much of the load for the entire house. The only loads remaining are heating, AC and lights.

 

[suemarkp]

ChatGPT told me #2 on 90A is undersized, and it suggested 1/0 and 125A. I didn't know they made #1 SER cable.

Don't trust ChatGPT for much. When I do a load calc, it comes to about 70A. So 90A feeder would be fine. Could do #4 copper on an 80A or 90A breaker, #3 copper on a 100A, #2 AL on a 90A.1/0 AL on a 125A would be overkill.

 

[retirede]

ChatGPT told me #2 on 90A is undersized, and it suggested 1/0 and 125A. I didn't know they made #1 SER cable.

AI slop must be using 60 degrees. 95A @ 75.

 

[infinity]

1/0 Al SER is rated for 120A @ 75 deg. You can’t use the 83% rule unless it’s feeding the entire structure.

Don't need the 83% rule. 120 amps is not a standard size so next size up rule would allow 125 amp over current protection.

 

[ActionDave]

ChatGPT told me #2 on 90A is undersized, and it suggested 1/0 and 125A. I didn't know they made #1 SER cable.

Tell Chatddt to try again. I have a 3500 sq ft house that doesn't crack 70 amps when I fire up all the appliances, plug in the electric tea kettle, rice cooker, crockpot, every curling iron and blow dryer, and turn every light on.

Of the items in your list, the fridge is only going to draw 2A, dishwasher 5A, microwave 10A, dryer about 18A and disposer a quarter of an amp for two seconds. You could use #2 on a 90A breaker and have enough headroom to add a hot tub and a home theater with a commercial popcorn machine.

 

[Joethemechanic]

Tell Chatddt to try again. I have a 3500 sq ft house that doesn't crack 70 amps when I fire up all the appliances, plug in the electric tea kettle, rice cooI

Electrical needs are way overblown. I remember going back to Johnstown in the 60-70'sas a kid and seeing all the houses with city gas only having a two wire 120 volt 30 amp service. I saw my aunts cooking, uncles running power tools in the garage, window shaker running in the living room.
Not to mention the lighting loads were much more real then.

The only places I really think the loads have gotten higher is HVAC and possibly electric car charging

 

[Greg1707]

Tell Chatddt to try again. I have a 3500 sq ft house that doesn't crack 70 amps when I fire up all the appliances, plug in the electric tea kettle, rice cooker, crockpot, every curling iron and blow dryer, and turn every light on.

Of the items in your list, the fridge is only going to draw 2A, dishwasher 5A, microwave 10A, dryer about 18A and disposer a quarter of an amp for two seconds. You could use #2 on a 90A breaker and have enough headroom to add a hot tub and a home theater with a commercial popcorn machine.

In my area I see houses built in the 1940s knocked down and replaced with 3,500 all gas construction. These house all have 400 amp services. There is no room for future pools or ADU. How did we end up with 400 amps being the new minimum?