Kitchen Countertop Receptacles

[jeff43222]

I just looked at a kitchen remodel job this evening. In one corner of the kitchen is a brick chimney, and there is a plan to put countertops on each side of it. There is no plan to conceal the chimney.

I'm curious how other ECs (and inspectors) interpret the chimney with regard to 210.52(C)(1). I've had inspectors require receptacles on brick walls above countertops, and I've had them waive the rule on aesthetic grounds ("I could make you put one in, but I won't because it would look funny.").

Is the chimney considered wall space?

 

[jwelectric]

(1) Any space 600 mm (2 ft) or more in width (including space measured around corners) and unbroken along the floor line by doorways, fireplaces, and similar openings

 

[bikeindy]

I wonder how the chimney is situated will there be counter space in front of the leading edge corner? counter tops are about 30 " deep right so even if the chimney came out half of that. on each side thats 15" per side that gives you 30" linear so a receptacle on each side no more that 7" from the chimney "wall" gets you in code. seems to me if the chimney came all the way out to the face of the counter top it is just an end wall of each side of the counter top. maybe I am not picturing your problem right?

 

[infinity]

I'd say that the chimney does not meet the definition of wall space.

 

[allenwayne]

Same layout but a regular wall.Do you measure from the front of the counter back then 90 down the rear wall ,or in a standard layout dp you measure from the front of the adjoining wall then 90 down the back.In many years I had only one instance where the inspector tagged the job for the sidewall space,he was also the same inspector that tagged the same job for staples not being tight enough :shock:

 

[Jim W in Tampa]

Its the same as a wall so treat it the same.Or look at it like its an appliance garage.I cant see why it would be a problem if you but a receptacle on both sides as near as possible to the chimney.Typical counters are 25 inches.

 

[jeff43222]

In this case, the chimney is in the corner, and each side comes out about as far as the counter will come out. The backs of the counters wouldn't be up against the chimney, but the sides would.

I have the same thing in my own kitchen, but my chimney is covered by drywall. I don't think anyone would disagree that in my house, this would be considered wall space. But I have a hard time wrapping my head around the idea that drywall makes a difference in whether we call it wall space.

One idea I floated was to put in nice butcher-block tables rather than built-in counters, as that would remove the requirement for countertop receptacles. But I'd still like to know if the chimney would qualify as wall space. If I go with Jim's suggestion, the distance between the two receptacles would be more than four feet.

 

[Jim W in Tampa]

Then this sounds like its 2 counter tops not one.They are separated by a chimney so spacing starts from beginning of each.If they do touch then treat it as you would a sink.Drywall or brick changes nothing.

 

[jeff43222]

Yes -- this would be two countertops: one on each side of the chimney. The countertops wouldn't touch, but the near edges would be close to each other. Each countertop would be more than 12" wide.

I just realized that mentioning the four foot rule made it sound like one continuous countertop. Putting the receptacles as close as possible to the chimney would have them more than two feet from the beginning edge of the countertop next to the chimney.

 

[Jim W in Tampa]

The way most inspectors view counter tops is from the front of them on the back wall.Never had one try to include the wall to the left or right side of it but they could.The intent of the 2 foot rule was to avoid using cords.Years back we did not have this 2 foot rule and it caused problems.Put the receptacle within 2 feet of the chimney on the back wall and i would pass it.

 

[George Stolz]

I'm reading this through in a hurry (getting kicked off) but it sounds like the chimney is the side of the counterspace, not the back. The chimney sounds like the spot you stick your tape measure, to measure 2'.

 

[jeff43222]

In both cases the chimney would be along the side of the countertop, not the back. Inspectors I've dealt with have not made a distinction between sides and backs of countertops when defining the wall space. As far as I can tell, the NEC doesn't, either.

 

[dlhoule]

jeff43222,

How do they handle sinks and countertop stoves? My counter top is 25" in depth. Do I need a receptacle along the side edges of sink and stove?
I do not think a counter top broken by a chimney should be treated any differently than sink or stove.

 

[jeff43222]

I just got off the phone with the chief inspector. He said he does consider the chimney wall space for the purpose of the countertop receptacles.

My potential customers really don't want to put receptacles on their chimney, so I think they are going to go with my suggestion of butcher block tables instead of fixed countertops.

 

[charlie b]

I just got off the phone with the chief inspector. He said he does consider the chimney wall space for the purpose of the countertop receptacles.

Call him back. He is confusing apples with hand grenades.

210.52(C) is all about counter spaces. It has a sub-section about wall counter spaces. But if there is no counter, then there is no wall counter space. You are talking about having a counter to the left of the chimney and another counter to the right of the chimney. But unless I misunderstand, you are not talking about having a countertop at the chimney itself (i.e., the chimney is not the "backsplash" for its own countertop surface). So 210.52(C) would not apply to the chimney.

That brings us to 210.52(A). The question now becomes whether the chimney is a wall space, so that it needs a receptacle within 5.5 feet of the floor. My answer to that is no. I would say that a chimney would break up the line of the floor in the same way that a fireplace would break up the line of the floor.

I conclude that there is no rule to require a receptacle on the chimney.

 

[Pierre C Belarge]

Charlie wrote:
"I would say that a chimney would break up the line of the floor in the same way that a fireplace would break up the line of the floor."

Why do you say this?

Fire places have openings that are used for a portion of time during the year. The chimney wall space is no different that any other wall space.

Wall space is wall space. What is the difference in what makes up the wall space. If the chimney was to be sheetrocked, no one may even know it was a chimney.

 

[charlie b]

Wall space is wall space.

And chimney space is chimney space, and never the twain shall meet.

The chimney wall space is no different that any other wall space. . . . If the chimney was to be sheetrocked, no one may even know it was a chimney.

It would be the sheetrock that turned the chimney space into a wall space. That may seem a bit glib. But look at it from the perspective of the homeowner.

If all you see from one end of the room to the other is sheetrock, you are going to call the whole thing a wall. You are going to hang pictures on the wall, and you are going to look for receptacles on the wall so you can plug in your lamps or your vacuum cleaner. But if you see sheetrock, then brick, then sheetrock, you are not going to hang pictures on the brick, and you are not going to look for a receptacle on the brick. The entire thing might comprise your "north side wall" of the room, but you will decorate and generally treat the two sheetrock areas as though they were separate wall spaces.

Why should the NEC treat them as one long wall?

Fire places have openings that are used for a portion of time during the year.

During those same times, the chimney is also being used. That tells us nothing.

When 210.52(A)(2)(1) uses the phrase "or similar openings," I do not look for holes in the wall. I don't look for a hole I can walk through (i.e., a doorway) or a hole through which I can pass another log for the fire. I look for something that isn't a wall, something you could remove and leave the wall in place, something that would look like a hole during the rough-in stage of construction, if the wall was build first, and the other thing (like the chimney) was built into the hole in the wall.

I simply see a chimney as being a "similar opening," as far as the wall is concerned. So I would place receptacles on the wall to the left of the chimney, and I would place receptacles on the wall to the right of the chimney. In this specific case, the receptacles would be for countertop spaces, not wall spaces, but they would still be left and right of the chimney.

 

[jeff43222]

In this case, the chimney would form the "sidesplash" of the two countertops installed adjacent to it. When I looked at 210.52(C), there was no distinction made between walls at the back of the counter vs. walls at the side of the counter. In the houses I work in, I often deal with counters with an end against a side wall. The inspectors generally consider the side wall as part of the wall that gets measured for receptacles, so the measurement starts at the front edge of the countertop.

Suppose the entire kitchen had brick walls, thus allowing the chimney to blend right in. How would you distinguish between wall and chimney? I once dealt with this same inspector on a job where a good portion of the kitchen countertop wall space was indeed brick, and he required receptacles to be mounted.

 

[charlie b]

The inspectors generally consider the side wall as part of the wall that gets measured for receptacles, so the measurement starts at the front edge of the countertop.

But most countertops are about 25 inches front to back. So in order to meet the 24 inch limit, do they require you to actually place a receptacle on the side wall?

Suppose the entire kitchen had brick walls, thus allowing the chimney to blend right in. How would you distinguish between wall and chimney?

A brick wall is a brick wall. A brick chimney is not a brick wall. The function of a chimney is to convey combustion gases out of the house. The function of a wall is to keep out the wind and the neighbor's dog, and to serve as a place to hang pictures. That's how you tell the difference.

 

[George Stolz]

Brick or drywall doesn't matter, IMO.

What does matter is the inspector's interpretation of 210.52(C).

The inspectors generally consider the side wall as part of the wall that gets measured for receptacles, so the measurement starts at the front edge of the countertop.

That's just nuts, IMO. I've never heard of that.

Look at it this way. An appliance in the kitchen has a two foot cord. If you install a receptacle on the back wall at just under 24", then you can set a toaster on the front corner of the counter and plug it in. It'll miss by, what, a few inches?

It's ludicrous to have to install a receptacle on a side wall to accomodate three square inches of counterspace in the corner that the back wall receptacle just barely can't reach.

That's not the way it's enforced in my neck of the woods, thank goodness.