Kitchen Countertop Receptacles

[al hildenbrand]

2 b : to furnish or offer typically or as an essential concomitant <by the great distribution ~ed by the printing press ? R. A. Hall b. 1911>

. . . just as the existence of the printing press changes the distribution of printed material.

The existence of the printing press made it possible to print a lot more copies than was possible beforehand (i.e., when copies could only be made by hand). The press "furnished" a method for making more copies. It did not "furnish" space. Nor does a railing.

Charlie,

By twisting the definition example to " The press "furnished" a method for making more copies. " you are not addressing "distribution".

Oh, and, yeah, I agree with you, a press does not furnish space, it occupies space.

 

[al hildenbrand]

To say "space afforded by a railing" another way,

The new space is concomitant with the presence of the new railing.

 

[charlie b]

By twisting the definition example to "The press "furnished" a method for making more copies," you are not addressing "distribution."

I am not doing any twisting. The machine, the press, did not distribute newspapers. Paperboys did that.

The definition's example, ". . . by the great distribution afforded by the printing press," is saying that a great distribution of (presumably) newspapers was made possible by the invention of the press. There is no way you can twist that statement to make the word "afford" apply to the relationship of railings to wall space.

Charlie, you are still not expanding your focus on the definition.

Consider ALL of 2 b :: That is to furnish or offer typically or as an essential concomitant.

You quoted only the adjective version of the definition of "concomitant." That word is used as a noun, in the definition of "afford." The noun version of concomitant is defined as "a concomitant quality, circumstance, or thing." Which of these three properly describes "space"? Perhaps we can use "thing" for our purposes, but "quality" and "circumstance" won't do.

But first let us recall that the NEC speaks of space as being "afforded by" the railing. That is passive voice. The active voice version would be that the railing affords the space.

For this part of the definition of "afford" to apply to railings and wall space, it would have to be saying that the railing furnishes (or offers) space as a thing that is essential to (though in a lesser important way), and occurs at the same time as, the railing.

That doesn't work for me. But it does seem to be a step in the right direction. So I'll agree to rescind my statement that the phrase "afforded by" is meaningless. In its place, I'll say that the phrase "afforded by" needs to be replaced by something more clear and more appropriate to the intended meaning. I already have this on my list of items to submit for the 2011 NEC. I think I'll keep it on the list.

 

[al hildenbrand]

You quoted only the adjective version of the definition of "concomitant." That word is used as a noun, in the definition of "afford." The noun version of concomitant is defined as "a concomitant quality, circumstance, or thing."

Charlie,

Consider:

?concomitant 1 : something that accompanies or is collaterally connected with another : ACCOMPANIMENT

"The new space accompanies the presence of the new railing."

Of course a railing has two sides, so, maybe I should say "spaces", but I leave that distinction for wordsmiths and/or the Style Manual.

 

[charlie b]

I won't throw a red tag on the suggestion that there is space that is concomitant with the railing. But the railing is neither furnishing nor offering the space with which it is concomitant. It is occupying that space, and "afford" does not mean "occupy."

 

[al hildenbrand]

But the railing is neither furnishing nor offering the space with which it is concomitant.

Sure it is.

The new space (on one side of the railing) is offered to me, by the railing, to arrange furniture in, once the railing is in place.

 

[al hildenbrand]

:twisted:

Or should I have said "furnishings" instead of furniture?

:wink:

 

[allenwayne]

If the counter top extends beyond the wall and ends (open ended) at that point it would be a peninsula.

I had a house in which the kitchen countertop had nothing on its right hand side (i.e., no side wall). There was "wall space" behind every inch of the countertop, but the "wall space" to the right of this countertop was the exit door to the back porch. So I would not have called that part of the counter a "peninsula." If some inspector said that the side of the counter had to be included in the calculation of "wall space," there would have been no place to place a receptacle.

That is why I specifically posted (the counter extends beyond the wall and ends open ended that would be a peninsula). Be it 1 ft or 40 ft one receptacle would then be required.I did a series of town homes that had a flat counter top that was 14 inches on the open ended side along side a sink , and to satisfy the code we put a receptacle on the side of the cabinet within required distance since the counter top to the left of the sink was more than 12 inches.It was a drawer base and a old work cut in box cleared the drawer slide.

 

[charlie b]

But the railing is neither furnishing nor offering the space with which it is concomitant.

Sure it is.

The new space (on one side of the railing) is offered to me, by the railing, to arrange furniture in, once the railing is in place.

Nice try, but that won't do the job. You are using a different connotation of the word "offer" (or "offered") than the connotation used in the defintion (that you posted) of "afford."

The intent of the authors was that the railing itself, along with the space occupied by the vertical supports that hold the railing in place, is to be considered a wall, in the context of wall space that needs receptacles. The space on either side of the railing is not relevant to the article in question. So feel free to furnish the space on either side of the railing with whatever furnishings you desire. :wink:

No definition of "afford" makes sense in the context used in 210.52. I am still going to submit a code revision to replace "afforded" with "occupied," or with some other clever words I will come up with between now and the deadline for 2011 NEC submittals.


We now return this thread to its original programming. :lol:

 

[al hildenbrand]

My bad.

I concede any reference I've made to floor space as a brain f**t.

Back on point. The railing has surface space associated with it, whether the railing is solid or not. I still stand by my definition argument, with respect to this overall surface area, especially when there is nothing but air in the open areas of some (many) railings.

The problem with "occupied" is that it literally limits the wall space to the railing physical surface area, as opposed to an open railing's virtual surface.

 

[charlie b]

. . . an open railing's virtual surface.

I think I know what you mean by that phrase. It's a good description, and I think it is what the code authors intended. But I stand by my statement that the word "afforded" doesn't get you to this intended meaning, and that your interpretation of the definition of "afford" doesn't work for me.

Can we go home now?

 

[al hildenbrand]

Can we go home now?

Grateful Dead[/i]]If I knew the way, I would take you home. La da da da . . . . . .

 

[LarryFine]

Can we go home now?

No; we can't afford to.

 

[allenwayne]

Ok lets change the ops post to railing receptacles and not kitchen counter top receptacles