kitchen devices

[stickboy1375]

So, Stick and Dennis, would an outlet on either column suffice, or should there be one on both columns?

(2) Island Countertop Space. One receptacle outlet must be installed at each island countertop space with a long dimension of 2 ft or greater, and a short dimension of 1 ft or greater. When breaks occur in countertop spaces for appliances, sinks, etc., and the width of the counter space behind the appliance or sink is less than 1 ft, each countertop space is considered as a separate island for determining receptacle placement [210.52(C)(4)].

 

[Dennis Alwon]

So, Stick and Dennis, would an outlet on either column suffice, or should there be one on both columns?

I would put one on both just because I can and it would be useful but also an inspector could rightfully say that this wall is more than 12" therefore it needs one. You make a very good point and it makes me see how hard it is for the code panel members to come up with rulings for every scenario. My point was that if the island was 8 foot long with an overhang of 12 inches on the backside then what use would there be of an outlet mounted in the front of the cabinet. We can only protect homeowners so much. I doubt very seriously that an owner would go get an extension cord so they could leave an appliance in the middle of the "island". Your point is definitely well made.

 

[Dennis Alwon]

So, Stick and Dennis, would an outlet on either column suffice, or should there be one on both columns?

I like the way you make us think about our responses. Thanks

 

[Dennis Alwon]

So, Stick and Dennis, would an outlet on either column suffice, or should there be one on both columns?

Now if it were truly a column say 6"x6" then you have another story. Iwould still put 2 but one could argue for one. Why argue though if it is simple to put one in the column. Edit-- and useful.

 

[Dennis Alwon]

Now if it were truly a column say 6"x6" then you have another story. Iwould still put 2 but one could argue for one. Why argue though if it is simple to put one in the column. Edit-- and useful.

Sorry about all the post. I also think an island should have 2 outlets-- one on each end.

 

[stickboy1375]

Sorry about all the post. I also think an island should have 2 outlets-- one on each end.

I think an island should have NONE, IMO, its a hazard to have a cord hang off the edge... I have kids and all I can think of is an arm going thru the loop in the cord... (just an example with the kids...)

 

[George Stolz]

Stick: So, looking at the picture, your answer would be either column?

Dennis:

I like the way you make us think about our responses.

That's all I'm trying to do, not trying to pick on anybody. I care as much about how you came to your opinion as what it actually is.

I doubt very seriously that an owner would go get an extension cord so they could leave an appliance in the middle of the "island".

I agree. But sometimes the code leaves what "makes sense to us" and runs off on it's own tangent.

Now if it were truly a column say 6"x6" then you have another story. Iwould still put 2 but one could argue for one.

Interesting thought. If we have 6" of wall, what is the space next to the wall? Peninsula?

I think an island should have NONE, IMO...

I also think an island should have 2 outlets...

There were proposals each way this cycle, I believe. If I get time I'll try to pull up some of the panel statements to shoot down each.

 

[iwire]

So, looking at the picture, your answer would be either column?

My answer is there is no accurate NEC answer.

The answer will come from the inspector. We can argue all day about if the answer should be black and white but that will not change the fact that it is not.

I actually thought a lot about this thread and it seems to me that there are just to many variables about walls, knee-walls, counters, islands, peninsulas, columns etc. for the CMP to even try to make these code sections perfect.

It seems to me that the CMP expects the AHJ or the Inspector to make the call. Lets be honest, the intent of counter receptacles is fairly clear?

This to me is much the same as the CMPs requiring a disconnect 'nearest the point of entrance' I think we all know local interpretation of that varies widely.

 

[tallgirl]

I'd argue that it's more like a peninsular counter space that just so happens to be attached at both ends than an island, since an island is not attached at either end. It's clearly not a "wall counter space" since it has no wall or backsplash. I take this from the definition of "wall counter space" -- see 210.52 (C) (1) -- this counter only has "wall counter space" at the ends, and I think a literalistic reading of that section would mean that receptacles are required so that front to back, the 2' spacing requirement is met at each end. I'd look to (C) (5) for creative ways of getting out of requirements for outlets anywhere else.

I also agree with iwire -- the only way to find out how this is going to go is ask the inspector in advance.

(Oh, and the word we're all looking for is probably "isthmus" -- a strip of land connecting two larger pieces of land.)

 

[infinity]

I think an island should have NONE, IMO, its a hazard to have a cord hang off the edge... I have kids and all I can think of is an arm going thru the loop in the cord... (just an example with the kids...)

I would disagree. Having an island without a receptacle only means using an extension cord across the floor. An island is typically used as a work area in a kitchen which usually requires some sort of power operated device or tool.

Regarding the kid issue, you can choose not to use the receptacle if you have kids or you can keep them out of the kitchen.

 

[stickboy1375]

I would disagree. Having an island without a receptacle only means using an extension cord across the floor. An island is typically used as a work area in a kitchen which usually requires some sort of power operated device or tool.

Regarding the kid issue, you can choose not to use the receptacle if you have kids or you can keep them out of the kitchen.

Like I said, the kids are an example, I just hate to see a cord draped over the edge and I'm sure most people don't keep appliances out and plugged in anyhow...so the danger is at a low... most of the time...

The 2nd reason I don't think they should belong is I have yet to meet a cabinet builder that left me room for a receptacle...