The overhang on the back for an eating bar makes this a very difficult predicament.kc architects said:I have an eight foot long countertop with a 30 inch sink in the middle and an overhang on the back for an eating bar. I have an end wall at each end. Will a duplex device at each end satisfy the two foot rule.
Where does it say an island cannot have walls. As long as the unit is stand alone I would consider it an island.georgestolz said:But I thought islands have no wall counter space? This counter space does have walls, at either end.
If it is attached to a wall it is not an islandDennis Alwon said:Where does it say an island cannot have walls. As long as the unit is stand alone I would consider it an island.
Main Entry: 1is?land
Usage: often attributive
Etymology: alteration (influenced by Anglo-French isle) of earlier iland, from Middle English, from Old English Igland (akin to Old Norse eyland), from Ig island (akin to Old English Ea river, Latin aqua water) + land land
1 : a tract of land surrounded by water and smaller than a continent
2 : something resembling an island especially in its isolated or surrounded position: as a : a usually raised area within a thoroughfare, parking lot, or driveway used especially to separate or direct traffic b : a superstructure on the deck of a ship (as an aircraft carrier) c : a kitchen counter that is approachable from all sides3 : an isolated group or area; especially : an isolated ethnological group
Obviously there will be some situation where it would be very hard to define an island. Suppose there was a typical island 6 feet long in the middle of the kitchen. If you put a 4' high wall around three sides of it to make a sitting area on the opposite side of the coumter. Is this still an island? In this scenario I would be able to put outlets easily in the wall and would install them according to article 210.52. But would you have to??? Is this an island???georgestolz said:What constitutes standing alone?
I disagree. If the wall is out in the middle of the kitchen attached to the "island" and that wall is only 4' high I must beg to differ.iwire said:If it is attached to a wall it is not an island
The 'walls' do not extend to the ceiling?Dennis Alwon said:Suppose there was a typical island 6 feet long in the middle of the kitchen. If you put a 4' high wall around three sides of it to make a sitting area on the opposite side of the coumter. Is this still an island? In this scenario I would be able to put outlets easily in the wall and would install them according to article 210.52. But would you have to??? Is this an island???
Main Entry: 1wall
Etymology: Middle English, from Old English weall; akin to Middle High German wall; both from Latin vallum rampart, from vallus stake, palisade; perhaps akin to Old Norse volr staff -- more at WALE
1 a : a high thick masonry structure forming a long rampart or an enclosure chiefly for defense -- often used in plural b : a masonry fence around a garden, park, or estate c : a structure that serves to hold back pressure (as of water or sliding earth)
2 : one of the sides of a room or building connecting floor and ceiling or foundation and roof3 : the side of a footpath next to buildings
4 : an extreme or desperate position or a state of defeat, failure, or ruin <the surrounded troops had their backs against the wall> <small companies driven to the wall>
5 : a material layer enclosing space <the wall of a container> <heart walls>
6 : something resembling a wall (as in appearance, function, or effect); especially : something that acts as a barrier or defense <a wall of reserve> <tariff wall>
- wall-like /'wol-"lIk/ adjective
- off the wall slang : CRAZY <the plan was off the wall>
- up the wall slang : into a state of intense agitation, annoyance, or frustration <the noise drove me up the wall>
A 4' wall is commonly referred to as a knee wall but I don't want to dispute that issue. My point is if a 4'wall on either side of an "island" is acceptable to have it wired by nec according to the rules for an island then what difference does extending the knee wall up to the ceiling make. I know-- it's not an island anymore but wy would there be a need for more receptacles because of a height difference in a wall. Do you see my point. The code doesn't always see the obvious. If 2 outlets are good enough if the wall is 4' tall then it should be acceptable if the wall is 8' tall.iwire said:A 4' tall partition does not meet the common definition of wall.
If I were inspecting and this "island" was not attached except for 2 columns to the ceiling then I would call it an island. Obviously this is an AHJ call but since you gave that authority to me that's what I would do. It wouldn't make sense to require more outlets because the wall went to the ceiling. If one can justify only 2 receptacles when there is no wall there then I don't see why more would be needed if the wall went to the ceiling. Now if the wall on the back side went to the ceiling as well as the side walls then I would view this differently. Putting outlets in would also be quite simple at that stage.georgestolz said:So, supposing these columns do run all the way to the ceiling, what would you (both, all) call as an inspector?