I'm electrical engineer in Costa Rica and I designed a building with 50 condos. My interpretation of Article 210.8 of the NEC is that all the receptacles of the Small appliances branch circuit in Kitchen Countertop must be GFCI. The contractor has a U.S. assistant electrician and he said that only the first receptacle of branch circuit must be GFCI because others will be protected downstream and that is the way as you do always in the United States. I do not agree with that point of view because if GFCI receptacle fails the other downstream receptacles will remain unprotected. I know that in the past 5 years there have been many failures in GFCI receptacles outlets. Contractor and electrician want to reduce receptacles costs.Please I would like to know the opinion of you.Please.
Kitchen GFCI receptacles
- Thread starter Heresmil
- Start date
- Status
JohnJ0906
Senior Member
- Location
- Baltimore, MD
All receptacles serving a kitchen countertop must be GFCI protected.
How is a design consideration.
You can use A GFCI breaker and protect the entire circuit.
You can use GFCI receptacles at each location.
You can use a GFCI receptacle at the 1st location, and protect the rest from the load side of the GFCI.
How is a design consideration.
You can use A GFCI breaker and protect the entire circuit.
You can use GFCI receptacles at each location.
You can use a GFCI receptacle at the 1st location, and protect the rest from the load side of the GFCI.
- Location
- Chapel Hill, NC
- Occupation
- Retired Electrical Contractor
Heresmil said:
You are not required to have a GFCI receptacle at each location. A feed thru GFCI will suffice. If you are the designer and feel its better to have individual GFCI recep. at each location than you may design it that way. It is unnecessary and I believe the new GFCI's will not allow power downstream if they fail.
chris kennedy
Senior Member
- Location
- Miami Fla.
- Occupation
- 60 yr old tool twisting electrician
GFCI's have come a long way. Smart lock.
- Location
- Illinois
- Occupation
- retired electrician
I don't agree that the power is lost when the GFCI fails. I see nothing in the link that actually says that. It says that after a test it will not reset if the electronics have failed. It does not say that the circuit opens when the electronics fail.
Buck Parrish
Senior Member
- Location
- NC & IN
GFCI outlets are not required in Costa Rica.
The money they cost. Would be better spent else where.
The money they cost. Would be better spent else where.
- Location
- Illinois
- Occupation
- retired electrician
480 sparky,
I still don't see anything that says the new GFCIs automatically cuts the power when it has failed. Everything I read says it only prevents you from resetting after a test if the electronics have failed. It appears to me that even the GFCIs built to the new standard continue to provide power after the electronics have failed just like the old ones did.
I still don't see anything that says the new GFCIs automatically cuts the power when it has failed. Everything I read says it only prevents you from resetting after a test if the electronics have failed. It appears to me that even the GFCIs built to the new standard continue to provide power after the electronics have failed just like the old ones did.
- Location
- Chapel Hill, NC
- Occupation
- Retired Electrical Contractor
480sparky said:
I agree with you but I think the hype is real. The instructions do state that
To me this means that power will not get downstream if the unit fails.
- Location
- Chapel Hill, NC
- Occupation
- Retired Electrical Contractor
480sparky said:
I am not sure that is correct either. We'll have to get one of our techies to do an experiment. I thought if the electronics failed it would trip the GFCI-- perhaps that is not the case.
- Location
- Chapel Hill, NC
- Occupation
- Retired Electrical Contractor
guschash said:
The older GFCI's did just that. I am not positive about the new ones.
- Location
- Massachusetts
guschash said:
Not much, they are counting on someone to do the required testing of the GFCI.
goldstar
Senior Member
- Location
- New Jersey
- Occupation
- Electrical Contractor
Here's another situation where IF becomes one of the largest words in the English language. If you're following the guidelines of the NEC then, yes, all countertop receptacles have to be GFCI protected. So then,heresmil said:
1) If you install a GFCI circuit breaker all countertop receptacles will be protected. However, IF that breaker fails to trip then all receptacles WILL NOT be protected.
2) If you install one GFCI receptacle ahead of standard duplex receptacles then all receptacled downstream WILL be protected. However, IF that GFCI receptacle fails to trip then all receptacles downstream WILL NOT be protected.
3) IF you install individual GFCI receptacles at each point along the countertop area then all receptacles WILL be GFCI protected. However, IF any of them fail to trip due to a GF condition then that particular receptacle WOULD NOT be protected but the others may or may not be protected depending on how reliable you believe they might be.
My point to all this is that IF you're buying GFCI receptacles from a reputable company these devices are manufactured and tested under the highest standards. However, IF if you purchased these devices and they were manufactured in the dungeons of some 3rd World country and dumped on the Internet market, then yes I would be wary of their operation.
IMHO, you may choose to design the circuits as you wish but you're only adding cost to the job and not better protection.
- Location
- Chapel Hill, NC
- Occupation
- Retired Electrical Contractor
goldstar said:
Very well stated. Good job man
- Status