Kitchen GFCI

[Jw0307]

Would a receptacle in a upper cabinet of a kitchen for a microwave need a GFCI? The outlet is with in 6’ of the sink but it is not servicing the counter top and it’s not along the counter top

 

[LarryFine]

Would a receptacle in a upper cabinet of a kitchen for a microwave need a GFCI? The outlet is with in 6’ of the sink but it is not servicing the counter top and it’s not along the counter top

I would say no.

 

[rc/retired]

What code cycle are you under? It may make a difference.

Ron

 

[Jw0307]

I would say no.

Thank you . I got an inspector saying that it is required. Don’t know if GC is gunna fight it or not but based on AHJ it a waiting game now

 

[Jw0307]

What code cycle are you under? It may make a difference.

Ron

The building is going off of 2019 code

 

[don_resqcapt19]

The building is going off of 2019 code

I assume you mean the 2017 NEC as there is not 2019 NEC.
210.8(A)(7) in the 2017 will required GFCI protection for this receptacle because it is within 6' of the sink.

 

[pipe_bender]

I think you'll need a GFCI breaker,as a GFCI has to be accessible.

 

[LarryFine]

Is the 6' a straight line or the path a power cord would have to take?










is

 

[Jw0307]

Is the 6' a straight line or the path a power cord would have to take?










is

No. There is a upper cabinet specifically for the microwave above the counter and the outlet is inside of that section

Is the 6' a straight line or the path a power cord would have to take?










is

Is the 6' a straight line or the path a power cord would have to take?










is

No. The upper cabinet is specifically for the microwave above the counter and the receptacle is placed inside of that section. If that makes sense

 

[don_resqcapt19]

No. There is a upper cabinet specifically for the microwave above the counter and the outlet is inside of that section



No. The upper cabinet is specifically for the microwave above the counter and the receptacle is placed inside of that section. If that makes sense

Is there a door in front of the microwave?

For the purposes of this section, when determining distance from receptacles the distance shall be measured as the shortest path the cord of an appliance connected to the receptacle would follow without piercing a floor, wall, ceiling, or fixed barrier, or passing through a door, doorway, or window.

 

[LarryFine]

Is there a door in front of the microwave?

I would think that, if a cabinet door qualifies as a door, then an open cabinet front would qualify as a doorway.

 

[don_resqcapt19]

I would think that, if a cabinet door qualifies as a door, then an open cabinet front would qualify as a doorway.

I wouldn't and there was never an intent for a cabinet door to count for this measurement, that is why that language is no longer in the code. Removing the door language made any receptacle under the sink cabinet subject to the GFCI rules. There was extensive debate after the 2017 was published and in the 2020 the language was changed to.

For the purposes of this section, when determining the distance from receptacles the distance shall be measured as the shortest path the supply cord of an appliance connected to the receptacle would follow without piercing a floor, wall, ceiling, or fixed barrier, or the shortest path without passing through a window.

 

[Jw0307]

Sorry for quality had to lower resolution. But that is where the microwave will be

 

[LarryFine]

That's pretty darned close, and it's the appliance, too, not just the receptacle.

Can you feed it through the GFCI receptacle below it?

 

[Jw0307]

That's pretty darned close, and it's the appliance, too, not just the receptacle.

Can you feed it through the GFCI receptacle below it?

How the previous Forman had it ran was based off the plans as that plug is the second small appliance circuit and it’s dedicated. If you mean by plugging micro into GFCI below then they would need to cut the bottom for the cord to go thru which they do not want to do

 

[LarryFine]

How the previous Forman had it ran was based off the plans as that plug is the second small appliance circuit and it’s dedicated. If you mean by plugging micro into GFCI below then they would need to cut the bottom for the cord to go thru which they do not want to do

No, I meant the two receptacles on one circuit. Your way would need a second GFCI.

 

[Jw0307]

No, I meant the two receptacles on one circuit. Your way would need a second GFCI.

We would be able to fish a wire down to the lower GFCI and connect them that way. So your saying how it is now a GFCI would be needed in that location above?

 

[LarryFine]

Only because it's a lot closer than I envisioned, which was more like a residential kitchen.

 

[Joe.B]

I assume you mean the 2017 NEC as there is not 2019 NEC.
210.8(A)(7) in the 2017 will required GFCI protection for this receptacle because it is within 6' of the sink.

OP has the location listed as "California" so he is correct saying it's "going off of 2019 code", but you are also correct because the 2019 CA Electrical Code is based off of the 2017 NEC. I agree with your interpretation and if I was the inspector for this job, I would have called it out too.

 

[curt swartz]

The receptacle is required to be AFCI protected so why not just change the breaker to a DF?

We stopped using GFCI receptacles in the kitchen and anywhere else GFCI and AFCI is required. DF breakers are less expensive than and AFCI breaker and a GFCI receptacle. Labor is less not having to install a GFCI receptacle. Much easier to guide homeowner through resetting a breaker than trying to have them figure out which device is tripped.