The imposed cost didn’t seem to hinder the adoption of AFCI requirements.
Kitchen Islands 2023 NEC
- Thread starter infinity
- Start date
We also recently remodeled the kitchen. I showed the pop-up outlets to my wife and she said absolutely no way - crumbs, liquids, stuff gumming it up. I ended not putting them in the countertop. Now, one on side there is an eat-in table extension to the island that is attached, but lower, and I put the outlets in that gap between the island stone the the table stone extension. I assume that is not a violation. The other outlet is just on the end-cap of the island, so that's a violation. I don't really understand the code that allows no-outlets, but needs to be future proofed. Every island is going to have something plugged in at some point. An extension cord is certainly more hazardous than an outlet on the side of the cabinet. Or, with no outlets, but the ability to add an outlet, the homeowner gets a handyman in there and they hack sometime in that is hazardous. I also don't understand current builder trend of creating a goes-no-where-pony-wall next to the island which has an outlet in it. Although, it sounds like the 2026 code will kill that one. Are there really that many kids pulling over crock pots?
I think the one other place the NEC prohibits receptacles in a dwelling is the within a tub or shower or within 3 feet of one.
Surely many islands will just have no receptacle and cords will be bridging the walkway.
I am fine with the NEC not requiring a receptacle but its excessive to prohibit one,
A receptacle on a island at standard outlet height seems to be allowed.
Surely many islands will just have no receptacle and cords will be bridging the walkway.
I am fine with the NEC not requiring a receptacle but its excessive to prohibit one,
A receptacle on a island at standard outlet height seems to be allowed.
- Occupation
- Licensed Electrician
I remodeled my kitchen in 2005 and didn't put a receptacle in it. It's never been noticed, never been needed, never been on the wish I would have done that list, and there has never been an extension cord used.
The NEC was right to get rid of the requirements to have one. It's a design issue. They were wrong to prohibit one. It's a design issue.
If you look at worst code requirements that cause so much debate and problems, ninety nine out of a hundred are when the code swerves into design issues.
- Location
- Illinois
- Occupation
- retired electrician
Where is it prohibited?..the code simply specifies the permitted locations if you choose to install a receptacle on an island.
In the 2026 they make it worse with a 210.52(C)(4) locations prohibited.
- Location
- Illinois
- Occupation
- retired electrician
I understand that, but that is simply the inverse of specifying the locations that you can install a receptacle in. There is no requirement to install a receptacle and no prohibition on installing one.
- Location
- New Jersey
- Occupation
- Journeyman Electrician (retired)
The issue is a receptacle in the side of a cabinet is easier to install and less intrusive than a big pop up in the countertop surface.
Personally I hate pop ups and given a choice I'll take the side of the cabinet every time. Dave was saying that the location should be a design issue up to the customer not specified by the NEC. IMO the substantiation for this change was weak.
- Location
- Illinois
- Occupation
- retired electrician
Not if you read the Consumer Product Safety reports on injuries from adults and children pulling cooking appliances off the countertop because of the cord hanging over the side.
Probably a better solution would be via the product safety standards to require magnetic connections for the cords of these appliances, but that would not address the millions appliances that are already in use.
- Location
- New Jersey
- Occupation
- Journeyman Electrician (retired)
I did read part of it once which is why I said it was is weak. Something like 10k injuries over 30 years. No report on the number of serious injuries and there were no deaths. I've always argued that most of those injuries can be attributed to poor parenting but that's a separate discussion.
winnie
Senior Member
- Location
- Springfield, MA, USA
- Occupation
- Electric motor research
IMHO the problem of dangling cords getting snagged should have been addressed by a requirement that receptacles on the sides of cabinetry below countertops include some sort of cable management as part of the cabinetry to prevent cords from dangling. If the cords aren't loose and easy to snag as you walk by (or grab as you run by) then the problem goes away.
For example having a tilt out cover over the outlet, where the cover door becomes a shelf that holds the cord up, kinda like this but with the door not sloping down:
Or adding something like a 'fairlead' (used in boating) to guide the cord neatly against the side of the cabinetry up to the top of the counter:
-Jonathan
For example having a tilt out cover over the outlet, where the cover door becomes a shelf that holds the cord up, kinda like this but with the door not sloping down:
Or adding something like a 'fairlead' (used in boating) to guide the cord neatly against the side of the cabinetry up to the top of the counter:
-Jonathan
kwired
Electron manager
- Location
- NE Nebraska
- Occupation
- EC
Easy solution here is to install cord pendant receptacles, if they are no more than 20 inches above the countertop they are code compliant.
No need to drill through your granite top, probably less cost than listed pop up types as well.
No need to drill through your granite top, probably less cost than listed pop up types as well.
- Location
- Chapel Hill, NC
- Occupation
- Retired Electrical Contractor
And that would look just beautiful
kwired
Electron manager
- Location
- NE Nebraska
- Occupation
- EC
NEC doesn't really care what anything looks like, you just have to sell the idea to your customers
