jimwalker
Senior Member
- Location
- TAMPA FLORIDA
Re: Kitchen Peninsula Receptacle
Now look what you did Allen
inspectors.
Now look what you did Allen
inspectors.
Kitchen Peninsula Receptacle
- Thread starter jeff43222
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roger s deas
Member
- Location
- Georgia
Re: Kitchen Peninsula Receptacle
Okay, now I can see it too after Infinity's explanation, good point Allen.
Roger
Okay, now I can see it too after Infinity's explanation, good point Allen.
Roger
jwelectric
Senior Member
- Location
- North Carolina
Re: Kitchen Peninsula Receptacle
You don?t count the end of a counter top. The counter starts in the corner not from the front edge.
Take the counter top out and lay it in the floor, measure it and tell me how long it is. Did you measure the end or just to the end?
How long is the counter to the left of the sink. Are we to start at the front edge of the counter and measure down the side of the sink?
Then what is the difference?
You don?t count the end of a counter top. The counter starts in the corner not from the front edge.
Take the counter top out and lay it in the floor, measure it and tell me how long it is. Did you measure the end or just to the end?
How long is the counter to the left of the sink. Are we to start at the front edge of the counter and measure down the side of the sink?
Then what is the difference?
- Location
- Lockport, IL
- Occupation
- Retired Electrical Engineer
Re: Kitchen Peninsula Receptacle
Here's the way I explained the issue in a message to Mike:
Stand at the sink, and put your hand on the wall behind the sink. Move your hand to the right. You will run into one receptacle. Continue moving your hand to the right. Does your hand fall off the end of the counter, or does the dark blue line mean that your hand will run into a side wall? If the blue line is a wall, then you need a receptacle on that wall. 210.52(C)(1).
I agree that the end of a counter does not count, if the counter ends in open space. But what if it ends at a wall? Am I reading this wrong?
Here's the way I explained the issue in a message to Mike:
Stand at the sink, and put your hand on the wall behind the sink. Move your hand to the right. You will run into one receptacle. Continue moving your hand to the right. Does your hand fall off the end of the counter, or does the dark blue line mean that your hand will run into a side wall? If the blue line is a wall, then you need a receptacle on that wall. 210.52(C)(1).
mike@mikeholt.com
Moderator
Re: Kitchen Peninsula Receptacle
The purpose of the required receptacle is to ensure that there is a receptacle within 2 ft of any location in the space. If a space is 2 ft wide and has a side wall of 2 ft, it doesn't make any sense to install two receptacles in that location.
But, I can see the logic on why reading the Code would insist on two receptacles. I'm a practical person and I want to apply the NEC as it's intended.
But to make everybody happy, I'll be sure to remove the blue side wall. Maybe someone will make a proposal to that this issue is clear.
The purpose of the required receptacle is to ensure that there is a receptacle within 2 ft of any location in the space. If a space is 2 ft wide and has a side wall of 2 ft, it doesn't make any sense to install two receptacles in that location.
But, I can see the logic on why reading the Code would insist on two receptacles. I'm a practical person and I want to apply the NEC as it's intended.
But to make everybody happy, I'll be sure to remove the blue side wall. Maybe someone will make a proposal to that this issue is clear.
jwelectric
Senior Member
- Location
- North Carolina
Re: Kitchen Peninsula Receptacle
(1) Wall Counter Spaces. A receptacle outlet shall be installed at each wall counter space that is 300 mm (12 in.) or wider. Receptacle outlets shall be installed so that no point along the wall line is more than 600 mm (24 in.) measured horizontally from a receptacle outlet in that space.
As stated in the first sentence ?at each wall counter space? and again in the second sentence ?no point along the wall line?.
Now comes the question about the wall line.
Should I install a nine foot counter that counter would take up nine foot of wall space no matter how deep it is. Just because the counter ends in a wall does not change the fact that it is nine foot long and takes up nine foot of wall space.
The part of (C)(1) that is in bold states that a counter that is 12 in or more requires a receptacle.
Should this 12 in. counter be against a wall would it now become a 36 in. counter and require two receptacles?
(1) Wall Counter Spaces. A receptacle outlet shall be installed at each wall counter space that is 300 mm (12 in.) or wider. Receptacle outlets shall be installed so that no point along the wall line is more than 600 mm (24 in.) measured horizontally from a receptacle outlet in that space.
As stated in the first sentence ?at each wall counter space? and again in the second sentence ?no point along the wall line?.
Now comes the question about the wall line.
Should I install a nine foot counter that counter would take up nine foot of wall space no matter how deep it is. Just because the counter ends in a wall does not change the fact that it is nine foot long and takes up nine foot of wall space.
The part of (C)(1) that is in bold states that a counter that is 12 in or more requires a receptacle.
Should this 12 in. counter be against a wall would it now become a 36 in. counter and require two receptacles?
jwelectric
Senior Member
- Location
- North Carolina
Re: Kitchen Peninsula Receptacle
(3) Peninsular Counter Spaces. At least one receptacle outlet shall be installed at each peninsular counter space with a long dimension of 600 mm (24 in.) or greater and a short dimension of 300 mm (12 in.) or greater. A peninsular countertop is measured from the connecting edge.
Look at (C)(3). Where does the peninsular start?
I set an 8 in. drawer then a sink and another 24 in. drawer for this peninsular. Would I be required to install a receptacle on the 8 in. side due to the 24 in. depth of the counter that I started the peninsular from? 8 plus 24= 32
Would this not be the same as the counter that ends in a wall?
Edited to add the equation
[ July 28, 2005, 07:24 PM: Message edited by: jwelectric ]
(3) Peninsular Counter Spaces. At least one receptacle outlet shall be installed at each peninsular counter space with a long dimension of 600 mm (24 in.) or greater and a short dimension of 300 mm (12 in.) or greater. A peninsular countertop is measured from the connecting edge.
Look at (C)(3). Where does the peninsular start?
I set an 8 in. drawer then a sink and another 24 in. drawer for this peninsular. Would I be required to install a receptacle on the 8 in. side due to the 24 in. depth of the counter that I started the peninsular from? 8 plus 24= 32
Would this not be the same as the counter that ends in a wall?
Edited to add the equation
[ July 28, 2005, 07:24 PM: Message edited by: jwelectric ]
jimwalker
Senior Member
- Location
- TAMPA FLORIDA
Re: Kitchen Peninsula Receptacle
"Should this 12 in. counter be against a wall would it now become a 36 in. counter and require two receptacles?"
just put it in the middle
"Should this 12 in. counter be against a wall would it now become a 36 in. counter and require two receptacles?"
just put it in the middle
jimwalker
Senior Member
- Location
- TAMPA FLORIDA
Re: Kitchen Peninsula Receptacle
Why do they draw the line at 12 inches ? I could put a toaster on a 6 inch counter
Why do they draw the line at 12 inches ? I could put a toaster on a 6 inch counter
jwelectric
Senior Member
- Location
- North Carolina
Re: Kitchen Peninsula Receptacle
Use 250.52 (C)(3). And answer this one
I set an 8 in. drawer then a sink and another 24 in. drawer for this peninsular. Would I be required to install a receptacle on the 8 in. side due to the 24 in. depth of the counter that I started the peninsular from? 8 plus 24= 32
Use 250.52 (C)(3). And answer this one
jwelectric
Senior Member
- Location
- North Carolina
Re: Kitchen Peninsula Receptacle
If it was against a wall would it be a 30 inch counter?
hurk27
Senior Member
- Location
- Portage, Indiana NEC: 2008
Re: Kitchen Peninsula Receptacle
Sorry Allen on the previous post I didn't catch what you were trying to get at.
I believe the intent of "along the wall line" is the wall line that in in line with the connecting edge (front edge of counter) this would seem to ignore a side wall if the connecting edge ends at the side wall? As Mike said the intent is so there is an available receptacle within 24" of any counter space that requires a receptacle with the exception of Island and Peninsular Counter Spaces. How would you apply this if you had a counter that was over 24" deep? this is why I think "along the wall line" allows us to ignore the depth of a counter and just go by the wall line that has a connecting edge parallel to it. If the connecting edge stops at a wall so does the "wall line"
Sorry Allen on the previous post I didn't catch what you were trying to get at.
allenwayne
Senior Member
Re: Kitchen Peninsula Receptacle
It1s all good Wayne I was just wondering why this area of a kitchen would not be counted when er have to follow the wall line every where else in a home.
why would 210 52 C 1 exclude this 25 in deep wall area
It1s all good Wayne I was just wondering why this area of a kitchen would not be counted when er have to follow the wall line every where else in a home.
why would 210 52 C 1 exclude this 25 in deep wall area
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