Kitchen remodel two questions

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Re: Kitchen remodel two questions

I agree with George that code does not allow receptacles in cabinets on the SA circuits. Hopefully I get the code references right without my book (a previous time I screwed it up :) ). 210.52(B) says the SA should serve what is required by (A) and (C) and nothing else. Neither (A) or (C) says a receptable in a cabinet. I think it is (C)(5) that says specifically the receptacles in an appliance garage cannot be counted, and in an upper cabinet would also be over 20".

That's what I think code says. I don't know if that is the intent. My house has the receptacles in the appliance garage on the SA circuits. Perhaps the intent of the code is to allow them on the SA circuits but not allow them to meet the spacing requirements. But if you extend that to a receptacle for a range hood, where do you stop? Cord connected dishwasher and garbage disposal seem no different.
 
Re: Kitchen remodel two questions

I had a beautiful reply to this. I closed the window.

I hadn't posted it yet.

"...permitted to supply receptacles..." kills it for ya, Sam. If you put the hood on a SA recep you're violating 422. If you hard wire it on the SA, you're violating 210.52(B)(3). We're screwed either way. :cool:
 
Re: Kitchen remodel two questions

Alright, I'm trying to work with you. Give me a section in 422.
 
Re: Kitchen remodel two questions

We've officially come full circle, man.
NEC-2005 422.16(B)(4)Range Hoods, Condition (5) The receptacle shall be supplied by an individual branch circuit.
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I copied that from my post on page one.

Right after my tired, disgusted, but determined laughter at the second post, the very first answer to the original question. Look, and you'll probably go to bed like I am now.

We're gonna die like this!!! :D
 
Re: Kitchen remodel two questions

I can't do 2005 with you George. We're still on 1999 here?

And I don't have the new one cause I wont need it for ten years at the rate this state spends money to avoid doing things. :(

Edit: But I've been using 2002 for a year and a half, not a single inspector ever noticed, snicker, snicker! :D :D

Except Larry.

Edit again:

I copied that from my post on page one.

Right after my tired, disgusted, but determined laughter at the second post, the very first answer to the original question. Look, and you'll probably go to bed like I am now.
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Sometimes I wonder if we even listen to each other, I quoted myself from earlier in this thread too. :D

[ January 14, 2005, 04:33 AM: Message edited by: physis ]
 
Re: Kitchen remodel two questions

I agree. In official referee tone: After further review, according to the 2002 NEC, 210.52(B)(3) does allow other general use outlets in the kitchen to be supplied from the SA circuit. :)

NEC-2005 210.52(B)(3) Kitchen Receptacle Requirements. Receptacles installed in a kitchen to serve the countertop surfaces shall be supplied by not fewer than two small appliance branch circuits, either or both of which shall also be permitted to supply receptacle outlets in the same kitchen and in other rooms specified in 210.52(B)(1). Additional small-appliance branch circuits shall be permitted to supply receptacle outlets in the kitchen and other rooms specified in 210.52(B)(1). No small appliance branch circuits shall serve more than one kitchen.
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Wouldn't it be nice if they deleted all the text that I didn't bold? It would say the same thing, right?

The references to "two or more" SA's is redundant, already mentioned in 210.11(C)(1).
The "same kitchen" idea could be more forcefully added to 210.52(B)(1).

Whaddya think?

[ January 14, 2005, 07:12 AM: Message edited by: georgestolz ]
 
Re: Kitchen remodel two questions

At the late hour I am surviving, I will say this, arg, be thine code seem queezy.

You know my opinion on CMP 2 George.

That you can look at it on different days and see it different ways is where me wrath be from. Argh.

Jack asses who write this stuff. :D
 
Re: Kitchen remodel two questions

I'm not going to repost stuff that's already in this one anymore.

I guess you're saying that my reading it once brought me to the same conclusion you ended up at, septin fur it took you a fews more times?


action-smiley-054.gif


Of course I'm just havin a bit fun .
 
Re: Kitchen remodel two questions

I think the bulk of it was time well spent--nothing like beating something to death to know it like the back of your hand. :)
 
Re: Kitchen remodel two questions

I refuse to use 99 any more (for over a year, like I said). And neither one of us knows this like the back of our hand from this. Next time, all over again. I can sell tickets to it.

If you were to convert it to English, I would agree.
 
Re: Kitchen remodel two questions

Just to throw more on the fire :)
I don't think 210.52(b)(3) is saying any receptacles you want can be on the SA circuits. I wouldn't think it overrides 210.52(b)(1) and (2). I think the point of (3) is that as you are putting the 2 or more SA circuits in different places, at least 2 need to serve the countertop and they cannot serve another kitchen.

I totally agree the wording is bad.

George, read your bold and you will see it says receptacles supply receptacles. :)
 
Re: Kitchen remodel two questions

It's another one of those famous CMP 2 logic loops. :D

Edit: What it says depends on where you stop in the loop.

[ January 14, 2005, 06:19 PM: Message edited by: physis ]
 
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