Kitchen small appliance branch circuit

Merry Christmas

Dennis Alwon

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Chapel Hill, NC
Occupation
Retired Electrical Contractor
One usual misinterpretation comes from something very similar to what happened to you. Someone is looking for a rule on bending radius and they come across this but if you look above it it is in Part ll and that says "over 1000 volts. " This is often missed because it isn't in the section buit that section is under Part ll so it applies only to over 1000 volts

300.34 Conductor Bending Radius. The conductor shall not
be bent to a radius less than 8 times the overall diameter for
nonshielded conductors or 12 times the overall diameter for
shielded or lead-covered conductors during or after installation.
For multiconductor or multiplexed single-conductor
cables having individually shielded conductors, the minimum
bending radius is 12 times the diameter of the individually
shielded conductors or 7 times the overall diameter, whichever
is greater.
 

wwhitney

Senior Member
Location
Berkeley, CA
Occupation
Retired
Not me. There is nothing similar about a living room and a kitchen.
Sure, but the kitchen/living room boundary isn't always so clear when there's a knee wall. For example, if there's a counter on top that overhangs on the living room side for seating, then that's a strong argument that both sides of the knee wall are in the "kitchen." And given that, I think other cases are not always clear cut.

Cheers, Wayne
 

GoldDigger

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Placerville, CA, USA
Occupation
Retired PV System Designer
Just to push the logic to its extreme, if you put a receptacle on the kitchen side of the knee wall, intending to plug floor lamps or other equipment located in the living room into that outlet (cord running over the walll), then that receptacle would also be "serving" the living room?
:)
 

winnie

Senior Member
Location
Springfield, MA, USA
Occupation
Electric motor research
The explanation for including the dining room on the SABCs is for things like coffee urns and hot plates plugged in near where the food is consumed, not for food prep.

I'd expect a living room separated from a kitchen by a knee wall to sometimes be used in a similar fashion, eg for a party. So considering the living room side of the knee wall as a place for the SABC makes some sense.

On the other hand this is a grey area where the whole 'not a design manual' thing comes into play. I certainly wouldn't want the code to mandate 20A circuits anywhere someone might possibly plug in a coffee urn.

Jon
 

wwhitney

Senior Member
Location
Berkeley, CA
Occupation
Retired
On the other hand this is a grey area where the whole 'not a design manual' thing comes into play. I certainly wouldn't want the code to mandate 20A circuits anywhere someone might possibly plug in a coffee urn.
But conversely you might not want it to prohibit a receptacle on the living room side of the knee wall from being on the SABC. So I think in the case of the OP's knee wall, it would be good to have the flexibility to draw the kitchen/LR dividing line either down the middle of the knee wall, or just on the living room side of the knee wall. There are certainly plenty of open concept designs where the dividing line is a judgement call.

Cheers, Wayne
 

Fred B

Senior Member
Location
Upstate, NY
Occupation
Electrician
Question, is it just a knee wall or is there a countertop/ bar that might need the SABC associated with it, for it to be compliant? If not, put a counter top on it to make it fit into the kitchen definition. (Might be kind of cheating the code, but no re-wire.)
 

Bbaehre91

Member
Location
Lansing Michigan
Occupation
Electrician
Question, is it just a knee wall or is there a countertop/ bar that might need the SABC associated with it, for it to be compliant? If not, put a counter top on it to make it fit into the kitchen definition. (Might be kind of cheating the code, but no re-wire.)
Yes they have counter tops
 

retirede

Senior Member
Location
Illinois
If the receptacles on the living room side are installed on their own 20A branch circuit with no other outlets, you’re legal regardless of whether the inspector requires them to be on a SABC, or says they cannot be on a SABC.
 

Strathead

Senior Member
Location
Ocala, Florida, USA
Occupation
Electrician/Estimator/Project Manager/Superintendent
Ok! So after re reading it like 6 times it does make sense how it’s worded I think that the SABC only supply’s kitchen, pantry, and dining room under it refers to 210.52a as far as outlet code maybe for the dining room. Either way there are some things I wish were more clear with the code
now you get it(y)
 

ASIsparky

Member
Location
Philadelphia, PA
Occupation
Electrician
Yes they have counter tops
Question, is it just a knee wall or is there a countertop/ bar that might need the SABC associated with it, for it to be compliant? If not, put a counter top on it to make it fit into the kitchen definition. (Might be kind of cheating the code, but no re-wire.)
I was thinking along these lines as well. I would argue that the outlet serves the countertop above it, not the living room.
 
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