Kitchen Small Appliance Circuits...

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lpelectric said:
This thread is discussing whether switched receptacles are permitted in a kitchen. The answer is a resounding "NO" per NEC. :smile:
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:-?

Aren't garbage/sink disposals commonly switched?
 
lpelectric said:
In a bathroom or a kitchen a receptacle is not permitted to be controlled by a switch. It doesn't matter where the switch is located in the house or over at uncle Joe's. It's addressing any receptacle located in a bathroom or kitchen. It is that simple.
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Did you actually read 210.70 (1) Exception 1????
 
lpelectric said:
In a bathroom or a kitchen a receptacle is not permitted to be controlled by a switch. .
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I know I'm beating a dead horse but:smile: ,... just because the lighting outlet is not allowed to be on the SABC and a switched receptacle outlet cannot serve instead of a lighting outlet ,does not mean that the receptacle outlets on the SABC cannot be switched.
 
lpelectric said:
210.70(A)(1)Exception #1 clearly prohibits switched receptacles in kitchens and bathrooms.
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No, it most certainly does not. It merely states that you may not use a switched receptacle as a substitute for the required switch-controlled lighting outlet in a kitchen.

210.52(B)(2) and its' exceptions clearly states what is permitted and what is not permitted on the SABC's. :smile:
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No, it says, with two exceptions, that "The two or more small-appliance branch circuits specified in 210.52(B)(1) shall have no other outlets." That in no way prohibits switching one or more of the required SABC receptacles.
 
iwire said:
Yeah you are.

Is it helping?
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Well ,,...that depends on the ability of Ipelectric to read what the words say and not what he wants them to say or what he has been taught they say
 
iwire said:
And here I thought you where aiming at Esthy......


I must have been mistaken.
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It is an expression I have used often and now ,I suppose , thanks to Esty , I'll be using it a little more often ,...that one and "a fine kettle of fish " and
"there's more than one way to skin a cat"
and any others I think of :)
 
OK, I have an answer. Install GFI receps at every counter outlet location. Use the test & reset buttons to control the outlets. "Test" outlet off, "reset" outlet on. I can't help you if you wish to 3-way & 4-way the outlets. :roll: :grin:
 
iwire said:
What is the issue? :confused:

Fact 1

The NEC DOES not prohibit switching any or all receptacles in the home.
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Yes the NEC does prohibit switching those receptacles that are the SABC receptacles.
iwire said:
Fact 2

The NEC does allow a switched receptacle in place of a lighting outlet in some rooms.
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I agree.
iwire said:
Fact 3

The kitchen is not one of those rooms.
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I agree.
iwire said:
Conclusion

The kitchen must always have a switched lighting outlet for the mounting of a Luminaire.
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I agree.
iwire said:
Beyond that you can switch or not switch the kitchen receptacles how ever you want.
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I agree with the exception of the SABC receptacles. :smile:

iwire said:
It is that simple.
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I agree.
 
M. D. said:
I know I'm beating a dead horse but ,... just because the lighting outlet is not allowed to be on the SABC and a switched receptacle outlet cannot serve instead of a lighting outlet ,does not mean that the receptacle outlets on the SABC cannot be switched.
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I have edited out my entire text due to an epiphany. I realize now that a SABC receptacle can also be switched...just not as a lighting outlet. Duh!

There seems to be a great urgency from some of the more vocal on this site when they believe they're correct, to admonish others, not to teach, but to admonish. As far as I am concerned all the insulting only serves to skirt the very edges of relevance.
But, regardless, don't give up on me...I'm learning. Edited due to a rare condition called "understanding".:smile:
 
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iwire said:
I might agree if it was not an inspector having such a hard time with it.
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At least the inspector around here gets it. The last time I was in the same room with him he was walking through a dining room. He flipped a switch as he went by and the chandelier came on. Then he flipped the switch next to it and nothing happened. I think he expected the hall light to come on, because he stopped and asked what the switch controlled. When he was told it controlled half of some split receptacles in the dining room, he looked at the chandelier and asked what circuit those receptacles were on.

"One of the SABC's" was the answer.

"Oh, OK, that's alright" was the reply.
 
wbalsam1 said:
Also, in the author's text in the NEC Handbook on page 95, it says "A receptacle is not permitted to be switched as a lighting outlet on a small-appliance branch circuit." :smile:
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Right, the NEC required lighting outlet in the kitchen can not take the form of a receptacle.

But a receptacle in the kitchen can be switched, it can on the SABC and someone can come along later and plug a lamp into it.

The fact that someone plugs a lamp into an receptacle, switched or not, does not make that receptacle a lighting outlet.
 
iwire said:
Right, the NEC required lighting outlet in the kitchen can not take the form of a receptacle.

But a receptacle in the kitchen can be switched, it can on the SABC and someone can come along later and plug a lamp into it.

The fact that someone plugs a lamp into an receptacle, switched or not, does not make that receptacle a lighting outlet.
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I'll probably spend the rest of the night apologizing for my stupidity, but I now get what you've been saying. Duh! You fella's keep teaching, and I'll try to show up.....not that I'll always have my brain engaged...:grin: :grin:
 
wbalsam1 said:
There seems to be a great urgency from some of the more vocal on this site when they believe they're correct, to admonish others, not to teach, but to admonish. As far as I am concerned all the insulting only serves to skirt the very edges of relevance.
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I think its more frustration than anything, especially since you chimed in at post #132.... :grin:
 
wbalsam1 said:
I'll probably spend the rest of the night apologizing for my stupidity, but I now get what you've been saying. Duh!
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Fred, if this is the first time you've eaten crow on this site, you haven't been trying hard enough. Don't apologize for squat, aside from maybe editting your post. Better to leave it for context. ;) :cool:

I'm still waiting to hear back from lpelectric to see if he gets it yet. ;)
 
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