Labor only Service

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Jerseydaze

Senior Member
Have a customer who wants to buy his own 200 a service equipment from the depot Ive always suppled Cutler hammer panels I'm sure he will buy a homoline or Murry it got me to thinking has anyone had any problems with any modern panels does the brand on a 200a ressi panel really make a difference.
 
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electricmanscott

Senior Member
Location
Boston, MA
Have a customer who wants to buy his own 200 a service equipment from the depot Ive always suppled Cutler hammer panels I'm sure he will buy a homoline or Murry it got me to thinking has anyone had any problems with any modern panels does the brand on a 200a ressi panel really make a difference.

I don't know if that's neccesary. :wink:



It doesn't matter.

I wouldn't want o deal with the ineveitable headaches of letting the customer get the material for something like this.
 

emahler

Senior Member
nope....here is how you price it though....take your standard price, with you supplying the material, and then ask him for his material receipts....simply deduct the money he paid for his material from your standard price...then let him know that any missing material will cost him, and there is no warranty on anything...

let him save $3....
 

CopperTone

Senior Member
Location
MetroWest, MA
I've installed all brands the past 5 years and never had a problem with any of them - seimans, murrray, GE, cutler hammer, sq D - hom, QO.

The only problem you may have with the homeowner buying the material is they will forget something and to have to make a stock list for a homeowner is a PITA. The little things that are usually in your truck that the homeowner won't have.
Service changes are quick and very good money for electricians. doing it labor only will short change yourself. You should jack you hourly labor rate for this job to make up for mark up and profit.
I have personally have done about 200 service changes in the past 5 years and I've gotten pretty fast at them - what used to take 2 guys 9 hours now takes us 5.5 - 6 hrs. I tell my guy all the time - if we get done early I'll pay you for the day. We would lose money big time at labor only on a job like this.
 
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ultramegabob

Senior Member
Location
Indiana
nope....here is how you price it though....take your standard price, with you supplying the material, and then ask him for his material receipts....simply deduct the money he paid for his material from your standard price...then let him know that any missing material will cost him, and there is no warranty on anything...

let him save $3....

I agree, no warrenty....
 

ivsenroute

Senior Member
Location
Florida
nope....here is how you price it though....take your standard price, with you supplying the material, and then ask him for his material receipts....simply deduct the money he paid for his material from your standard price...then let him know that any missing material will cost him, and there is no warranty on anything...

let him save $3....


Great idea
 

480sparky

Senior Member
Location
Iowegia
Having been through the headaches of doing customer-supplied jobs in the past, it's rarely worth the extra money for all the extra work you need to do to get the job done.

101% of the time, the customer will buy the wrong material. An OH meter socket when you're doing a UG service. Or 1/2" ground rods instead of 5/8". No grounding bushing. A 30-space panel for 36 circuits.

There's also a bunch of little items that add up: NM connectors, wire nuts, anchors & screws. What about a backer board? If the meter & panel are back-to-back, exactly how long does the nipple need to be? What happens when the customer shows up with #2 instead of 2/0?

I would rather pass on this type of job any more. I end up wasting time, for which I have to charge them, and the customer gets frustrated and feels, in the end, I'm ripping them off. I prefer selling my abilities to do a professional job, not be a simple laborer in order to save them a couple bucks.
 

satcom

Senior Member
That is not a customer you have, it's a problem waiting to happen, when dealing with this type of person, make sure your tool box has a supply of Xanax, and your ready to donate your time and money, to his project. What he does not know is you can buy the material for a lot less at your supply house, then he will pay at the Box store, for some reason people think they are getting a bargin at the Box stores, and yes some pipe and wire is a bit cheaper, to suck them in, then bingo they make that up on all the 300% mark-up items.

Try to bring the parts for a tune up to your garage, and see how fast they show you the exit, or they take the job and hit you big time in the labor end. No such thing as a free lunch.
 

Rockyd

Senior Member
Location
Nevada
Occupation
Retired after 40 years as an electrician.
Being bulletproof helps...


PROPOSAL Page 2 of 2

Individuals with authorization to sign change orders shall be:

Name&Title:__________________________________________________________

Name:&Title__________________________________________________________
ELECTRICAL CONTRACTOR SHALL NOT BE LIABLE: Theft by others, items installed are considered sold. For failure to perform if prevented by strikes, or other labor disputes, accidents, acts of God, terrorism or war damages, governmental or municipal interference, shortages of labor or materials, delays in transportation, non-availability of the same from manufacturer or supplier, or other causes beyond Electrical Contractor's control. In no event, shall the Electrical Contractor be liable for special or consequential damages whatsoever; however caused.
EXCLUSIONS: This proposal does not include concrete, forming, painting, patching, trenching, core-drilling, venting and sealing of roof and wall penetrations. Electrical Contractor recommends specialist contractors for the aforementioned activities. All waste created by Electrical Contractor will be removed to a specific area on the construction site. Electrical Contractor not responsible for spores or molds, EIS, regulatory, permit, or inspection fees, power, communications, or tele-data billings to project.
LIGHTING FIXTURES AND EQUIPMENT SUPPLIED BY OTHERS:(1) Price includes installation of lighting fixtures furnished by others, if lighting fixtures are on job at time of electrical trim out. (2) Price does not cover the warranty of lighting fixture and equipment supplied by others. (3) Price does not cover the assembly of lighting fixtures and/or equipment supplied by others. (4) Price does not cover lighting fixtures weighing more than fifty (50) pounds. (5) Fluorescent lighting fixtures supplied by others shall be, assembled, pre-whipped, pre-lamped with in-line fuses.(6) Equipment supplied by others shall be installed by others except lighting fixtures according to conditions above. (7) Electrical Contractor shall not be responsible for Owner-provided lighting fixtures and equipment. Losses due to theft, damage, vandalism, etc. are not the responsibility of this Electrical Contractor. Electrical Contractor shall not receive nor store Owner-provided lighting fixtures or equipment.
MATERIALS AND EQUIPMENT: All material and equipment shall be as warranted by the manufacturer and will be installed in a manner consistent with standard practices at this time. It is agreed that title to all material required according to this proposal will remain the property of the Electrical Contractor until paid in full. it is understood that this Electrical Contractor shall have the authorization to enter upon owner/contractor for the purpose of repossessing material and equipment whether or not installed without liability to owner/contractor for trespass or any other reason.
NATIONAL AND LOCAL CODES: Electrical installation shall meet the National Electrical Code. Errors in design by the architect and/or engineer are not the responsibility of the Electrical Contractor. Any additional outlets, wiring, lighting fixtures, equipment, etc. not indicated on blueprints and specifications that are required by others (i.e. inspectors) shall not be part of this proposal.
NON COMPETE CLAUSE: Owner and all representatives of owner/contractor are not to contract or employee any contractor employees for a period of one (1) year from the completion of any of any electrical work performed by this contractor with said Owner/Agent within an area of a fifty (50) mile radius from this job site.
OWNER/CONTRACTOR DEFAULTS: Owner/Contractor will be in default: (1) any payment called for under this proposal and all authorized change orders becomes past due;(2) any written agreement made by the owner/contractor is not promptly performed; or (3) any conditions warranted by the owner/contractor prove to be untrue; (4) failure of owner/contractor to comply with any of the conditions of the proposal. Electrical Contractor's remedies in the event of owner/contractor defaults, Electrical Contractor may do any or all of the following (1) Suspend the work and remove it's material/equipment from the premises; (2) remove any Electrical Contractor-supplied material/equipment, whether or not it has been installed and whether or not it has been placed in operation. In this regard, owner/contractor agrees that Electrical Contractor may enter upon owner/contractor property for the purpose of repossessing such equipment without liability to owner/contractor for trespass or any other reason; (3) retain all money paid hereunder, regardless of the stage of completion of the work and bring any appropriate action in court to enforce its rights. The owner/contractor agrees to pay all costs and expenses, attorney's fees, court costs, collection fees (including fees incurred in connection with appeals) incurred by Electrical Contractor in enforcing its rights under this proposal.
PERFORMANCE: Contractor agrees that where a written construction schedule is provided with the signing of this proposal and fails to comply with said schedule, Contractor shall pay all overtime costs necessary to complete construction in a timely manner. If a written construction schedule is not provided with the signing of this proposal, Electrical Contractor shall not pay for any overtime to complete project and any overtime required shall be considered an extra and authorization shall be required according to change orders referred to above. Reasonable time shall be given to Electrical Contractor to complete each phase of the electrical job.
WARRANTY: (1) Warranties apply exclusively to the electrical installation of the material, lighting fixtures, equipment, and other items supplied by the Electrical Contractor, (2) Warranty does not apply to material, lighting fixtures, equipment and other items supplied by others. (3) Warranty does not apply to extensions or additions to the original installation if made by others. (4) Warranty shall commence from the final electrical inspection date for a period of one (1) year. (5) Warranty does not apply for acts of God, "others" improvements, sabotage, vandalism, or terrorism or war damages, governmental or municipal interference. Warranty does not apply if any payments according to this proposal become past due including change orders.
 

Fulthrotl

~Autocorrect is My Worst Enema.~
Having been through the headaches of doing customer-supplied jobs in the past, it's rarely worth the extra money for all the extra work you need to do to get the job done.

101% of the time, the customer will buy the wrong material. An OH meter socket when you're doing a UG service. Or 1/2" ground rods instead of 5/8". No grounding bushing. A 30-space panel for 36 circuits.

There's also a bunch of little items that add up: NM connectors, wire nuts, anchors & screws. What about a backer board? If the meter & panel are back-to-back, exactly how long does the nipple need to be? What happens when the customer shows up with #2 instead of 2/0?

I would rather pass on this type of job any more. I end up wasting time, for which I have to charge them, and the customer gets frustrated and feels, in the end, I'm ripping them off. I prefer selling my abilities to do a professional job, not be a simple laborer in order to save them a couple bucks.

i'd agree completely..... i did have one exception that proves the rule.....

just so you know it's possible..... i got a referral for a service change,
and the customer described the job over the phone, and wanted to
supply the material..... and i'm thinking "oh, noooo....." but doing this
was a favor for a good friend... so i said ok....

service was underground, direct burial, under a concrete driveway,
and the service was being relocated.... so i needed a j box, and a
bunch of fittings and stuff... and not all of it was certain until we got
into it... one of those things where you bring material for two different
ways of doing it, just to be sure.......

the homeowner, who was a sheriff, said not to worry, just show up
wednesday morning two weeks later, and all would be ready......
ok, i think, it's his show.

i roll in wednesday morning, 7 am, and there are 2 4x8 sheets of
plywood set up on sawhorses, as tables, and EVERYTHING is laid
out in perfect order.... the outage was scheduled, the inspector
was scheduled in the afternoon, and the guy helped with handing
me what i needed. it took 6 hours, and the job was done. nothing
was missed, no home desperate dash's, even the junction box was
the edison approved one, which is about $300. nobody uses those.
this guy had researched it, gotten the cut sheets, and bought the
box. the inspector showed up, signed us off, complemented us on
a job well done, and the line patrolman came back and lit things up.
i got handed a days wages at my normal hourly rate, in cash.

i needed nothing from the truck except tools. not a thing.
it was amazing. it was like walking into an operating room and being
handed your tools as you need them.

it'll never happen again... i just wish i coulda got the guy to come
work for me.....
 

satcom

Senior Member
i got handed a days wages at my normal hourly rate, in cash.

That is ok, if you don't have to earn your living from the business, you can't meet your cost of operating, and overhead expenses from wages only, heck, even an employee earns more when you add in their benifits, myself I would not consider someone a friend that took advantage of a friendship.
 

~Shado~

Senior Member
Location
Aurora, Colorado
I've done dozens of HO supplied jobs, over the years. One of my past employers didn't mind it all, in fact, he said he could actually make a few hundred dollars more at times.
He would do as others have stated here.
Go look job over...
Make take off, fax material quote request (for our suppliers and big orange near customer), create estimate including all his time for look over, bid process, travel for us picking up/delivering material, unloading, set up, actual job labor, etc... then back out his material cost, add a lil PITA factor.
Present bid to HO letting it be known missing material would be pulled from van and charged/payed before work started.
Then he would fax material order to big orange informing them who HO was and that they would be picking up and paying for material. He would give same material list to HO and myself to confirm all present on site. We then get job rolling.
Most HO never questioned anything more, perhaps feeling they got a bargin. Some that questioned price, had we provided material, were more often than not bummed the we could provide job for cheaper. When asked why, I say , we get better pricing...simple. Maybe from then on, they might just let others do whole thing...

Dave
 

petersonra

Senior Member
Location
Northern illinois
Occupation
engineer
nope....here is how you price it though....take your standard price, with you supplying the material, and then ask him for his material receipts....simply deduct the money he paid for his material from your standard price...then let him know that any missing material will cost him, and there is no warranty on anything...

let him save $3....

Good thought.
 

satcom

Senior Member
nope....here is how you price it though....take your standard price, with you supplying the material, and then ask him for his material receipts....simply deduct the money he paid for his material from your standard price...then let him know that any missing material will cost him, and there is no warranty on anything...

let him save $3....

You forgot to add, the cost of a peach pie!
 
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