Larger terminals for EGC?

[Solar_ice_caps]

I need to run a #6 EGC from a meter to a load center. N/G bond is in the meter can. Using a SquareD 200A panel with 225A busbar but the "branded" grounding bars they sell are too small to accept a #6.

Is my solution as simple as to buy something like this https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B003175XJW/ ground bar with larger lugs?

Local code is NEC2017

Thanks!

 

[LarryFine]

Unless you have an unusual power co., there should be no EGC in the meter. Everything upstream of the main disconnect should be bonded to and by the neutral. The premises EGC system begins iat the main.

 

[infinity]

I need to run a #6 EGC from a meter to a load center. N/G bond is in the meter can. Using a SquareD 200A panel with 225A busbar but the "branded" grounding bars they sell are too small to accept a #6.

If the panel contains the service disconnect as Larry stated there is no EGC to be run with the service conductors.

 

[Little Bill]

Only way I see needing the EGC is if it is a meter-main.

 

[ptonsparky]

For those applications where you do need a larger lug, they are available from your supplier.

 

[retirede]

Are you sure? The standard SQ-D bars (PxGTACP where ‘x’ is the number of positions) are rated for #4 through 14.

 

[don_resqcapt19]

I need to run a #6 EGC from a meter to a load center. N/G bond is in the meter can. Using a SquareD 200A panel with 225A busbar but the "branded" grounding bars they sell are too small to accept a #6.

Is my solution as simple as to buy something like this https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B003175XJW/ ground bar with larger lugs?

Local code is NEC2017

Thanks!

While there may be a grounding electrode connection in the meter, the neutral is used for all grounding and bonding purposes on the line side of and within the service equipment.

The installation of an EGC between the meter and the service equipment will always be a code violation as it puts the EGC in parallel with the neutral. This happens because the main bonding jumper is required to be installed in the service equipment and the main bonding jumper directly connects the neutral to the equipment grounding conductors.

 

[Solar_ice_caps]

While there may be a grounding electrode connection in the meter, the neutral is used for all grounding and bonding purposes on the line side of and within the service equipment.

The installation of an EGC between the meter and the service equipment will always be a code violation as it puts the EGC in parallel with the neutral. This happens because the main bonding jumper is required to be installed in the service equipment and the main bonding jumper directly connects the neutral to the equipment grounding conductors.

Thanks I’m wondering why the ahj approved the plans with the bond in the meter

 

[don_resqcapt19]

Thanks I’m wondering why the ahj approved the plans with the bond in the meter

The neutral is almost always factory bonded to the meter can enclosure.

What are you calling a "bond"?

There is no issue with a grounding electrode conductor being connected in the meter and other grounding electrode conductors being connected in the service equipment. The code permits the connection of the grounding electrode conductors to the neutral at any point between the service point and the service equipment. It also permits multiple GECs to be connected at different point.

Our utility requires two ground rods at the meter and the GEC from those rods connected to the neutral in the meter. if the structure has other grounding electrodes such as a metal underground water pipe, or concrete encased electrode, those GECs will be connected in the service equipment.

However, in no case would an equipment grounding conductor or a supply side bonding jumper be installed between the meter and the service equipment.

 

[Solar_ice_caps]

The neutral is almost always factory bonded to the meter can enclosure.

What are you calling a "bond"?

There is no issue with a grounding electrode conductor being connected in the meter and other grounding electrode conductors being connected in the service equipment. The code permits the connection of the grounding electrode conductors to the neutral at any point between the service point and the service equipment. It also permits multiple GECs to be connected at different point.

Our utility requires two ground rods at the meter and the GEC from those rods connected to the neutral in the meter. if the structure has other grounding electrodes such as a metal underground water pipe, or concrete encased electrode, those GECs will be connected in the service equipment.

However, in no case would an equipment grounding conductor or a supply side bonding jumper be installed between the meter and the service equipment.

I’ll try to upload an image of the plan section in a moment.

essentially, the connection between service Neutral, EGC,and GEC is shown as happening in the meter. From the meter on, there is an isolated EGC conductor that is not jumped/bonded to neutral anywhere further down the system.

 

[Solar_ice_caps]

Are you sure? The standard SQ-D bars (PxGTACP where ‘x’ is the number of positions) are rated for #4 through 14.

Well… I thought I was, but looking it up again you are indeed correct… as large as #4… well that solves that thanks!!

 

[ptonsparky]

I’ll try to upload an image of the plan section in a moment.

essentially, the connection between service Neutral, EGC,and GEC is shown as happening in the meter. From the meter on, there is an isolated EGC conductor that is not jumped/bonded to neutral anywhere further down the system.

I've only been able to do that once. Full sized EG for a dairy barn, and that allowance was removed the next cycle. Replaced by the current grounding grid, IIRC.

 

[Solar_ice_caps]

The neutral is almost always factory bonded to the meter can enclosure.

What are you calling a "bond"?

There is no issue with a grounding electrode conductor being connected in the meter and other grounding electrode conductors being connected in the service equipment. The code permits the connection of the grounding electrode conductors to the neutral at any point between the service point and the service equipment. It also permits multiple GECs to be connected at different point.

Our utility requires two ground rods at the meter and the GEC from those rods connected to the neutral in the meter. if the structure has other grounding electrodes such as a metal underground water pipe, or concrete encased electrode, those GECs will be connected in the service equipment.

However, in no case would an equipment grounding conductor or a supply side bonding jumper be installed between the meter and the service equipment.

I've only been able to do that once. Full sized EG for a dairy barn, and that allowance was removed the next cycle. Replaced by the current grounding grid, IIRC.

 

[LarryFine]

We never do it that way. A home is wired like the old 3-wire appliance circuits.

 

[don_resqcapt19]

The installation shown in the diagram in post #13 does not comply with 250.24(C). That section requires a main bonding jumper in the service equipment. There is no breaker at the meter, so the meter is not service equipment
That EGC is not connected to the neutral, so it is not in parallel with the neutral, however it will be if the code required main bonding jumper is installed in the service equipment.

 

[Solar_ice_caps]

The installation shown
The installation shown in the diagram in post #13 does not comply with 250.24(C). That section requires a main bonding jumper in the service equipment. There is no breaker at the meter, so the meter is not service equipment
That EGC is not connected to the neutral, so it is not in parallel with the neutral, however it will be if the code required main bonding jumper is installed in the service equipment.

My thinking is to add a bonding jumper (bonding Nuetral and Ground, and the enclosure, as an effective "starting point" of the EGC) in the service equipment and remove the spec’d #6 EGC between the meter and panel….thought?

As depicted, the GEC is shown as being connected to neutral though I don’t know the exact connection method (I’m sure it’s not a ground bar and jumper as shown).

 

[LarryFine]

The incoming service neutral (grounded conductor) "defines" the zero-volts-to-earth point for the premises, and bonding the metallic normally-non-current-carrying parts (panel enclosure, etc.) and electrodes (pipes, etc.) to the neutral makes sure there will be (almost) no voltage differences between them.

Note that everything ahead of the service is bonded directly to the neutral; there is no EGC ahead of that point. The enclosures and other metallic parts are effectively considered part of the neutral conductor itself. The premises grounding system originates at the service neutral, where electrode conductors normally terminate.

We know that an accidental contact between a non-grounded (hot) conductor and the neutral will trip a breaker or blow a fuse. The non-current-carrying parts must be solidly connected to the neutral at some point to assure that an accidental contact between a hot conductor and a grounded metallic surface will have the same result.

 

[LarryFine]

My thinking is to add a bonding jumper in the service equipment and remove the spec’d #6 EGC between the meter and panel….thought?

Correct. The meter is merely a "lump" in the service cable.

 

[electrofelon]

Correct. The meter is merely a "lump" in the service cable.

When siders side over the meter, like drywallers do with electrical boxes, just look for the lump with a straight edge

 

[don_resqcapt19]

My thinking is to add a bonding jumper (bonding Nuetral and Ground, and the enclosure, as an effective "starting point" of the EGC) in the service equipment and remove the spec’d #6 EGC between the meter and panel….thought?

As depicted, the GEC is shown as being connected to neutral though I don’t know the exact connection method (I’m sure it’s not a ground bar and jumper as shown).

Yes, add the code required main bonding jumper in the service equipment and remove the EGC. Note that is not even the correct term for that conductor as it is on the line side of the OCDP, and is actually a Supply Side Bonding Jumper and not an EGC.

There is no issue with connecting the GEC to the neutral in the meter can. Most meter cans have a lug for that purpose. The connection of the GEC in the meter is compliant with the code.