Laundry Dryer requires AFCI GFCI protection?

[tom baker]

Eliminating the receptacle (direct wire) is about the only way to exempt it from GFCI.

The rules in 210.8(A) apply to receptacle outlets.

The other way but usually not too practical in a dwelling is to supply with a circuit of over 150 volts to ground.

I see that 2023 NEC has included clothes dryers in the list that was moved from 422.5, and this would require GFCI for dryers regardless if in dwelling or non dwelling (150 volts to ground or less and 60 amps or less).

Going to be fun when we change the adopted code here as we are still officially on 2017 and when it gets updated (if any time soon) will likely skip 2020 and go to 2023. Because I hang out on this site I am somewhat familiar with some changes but still find things I wasn't aware of like this one.

Skipping a code cycle is tough. WA skipped the 08 and was hard lesson and they will never skip again

 

[ptonsparky]

Sound about right.

If death from a good 120v electrical shock can take several hours, there is time to leave the area. Not sure its possible to differentiate between a heart attack from natural causes, defibrillation by electric shock, CO poisoning, or suffocation (all are asphyxia), unless the body was still energized at some offending appliance. Coroner autopsy may also be unusual for heart attack victims, if natural causes is possible.

Data exists for hazardous occupations, and natural causes of death, but unless it occurs while doing electrical work electrocution is not easy to prove.

Burn marks on the body help.
An area electrician suffered a pretty severe shock. The fall from the ladder disconnected him. Dr suggested an overnight because dearth isn’t always immediate after shock.

 

[kwired]

Burn marks on the body help.
An area electrician suffered a pretty severe shock. The fall from the ladder disconnected him. Dr suggested an overnight because dearth isn’t always immediate after shock.

Monitoring O2 levels as well as frequent lab work on your blood and they can determine if some internal organ may have failed, which could allow them to treat that as soon as they discover it instead of you suddenly collapsing at work, home, etc. and possibly not having any time left to deal with the damages.

 

[ptonsparky]

He told me that he had wanted to shower before going in. Dr told him "don't bother, you may be dead before you get here".

 

[bullheimer]

Looked for an answer online and found that topic, so the correct answer seems to be: in dwelling units dryer receptacle should be GFCI protected
NEC 2020
210.8(A) Dwelling Units.
All 125-volt through 250-volt receptacles installed in the locations specified in 210.8(A)(1) through (A)⁠(11) and supplied by single-phase branch circuits rated 150 volts or less to ground shall have ground-fault circuit-interrupter protection for personnel.

2023 as well. thanks for the site. end of story. didnt know it was the same in 20. we in WA are on the 23 code now anyway.

 

[O3man]

I'm replacing a Load Center on my property and while the local inspector said that I did not have to acquire all new breakers for the panel, I would like to add GFCI breakers for the 30 Amp water heater and clothes dryer circuits to be compliant with the 2023 NEC . I don't want to buy these breakers (about $150/each) if they won't work on a 10-2 plus ground hookup. I understand that these 2 wire circuits will trip the GFCI breaker as soon as the switch is thrown. I would like to hear a definitive solution if there is one. Thanks for any input the forum might offer.

 

[don_resqcapt19]

I'm replacing a Load Center on my property and while the local inspector said that I did not have to acquire all new breakers for the panel, I would like to add GFCI breakers for the 30 Amp water heater and clothes dryer circuits to be compliant with the 2023 NEC . I don't want to buy these breakers (about $150/each) if they won't work on a 10-2 plus ground hookup. I understand that these 2 wire circuits will trip the GFCI breaker as soon as the switch is thrown. I would like to hear a definitive solution if there is one. Thanks for any input the forum might offer.

There is no code requirement for the water heater to have GFCI unless it is cord and plug connected with the receptacle in a location where 210.8 requires GFCI protection. As far as I know, there are no 30 amp water heaters listed for cord and plug connection.
If the appliance requires a neutral, you cannot use 10-2. Many dryers have a neutral connection.

 

[Jaybone812]

Does a 30 amp dryer outlet require AFCI / GFCI protection? I cannot find a duel function breaker for a double pole square d homeline 30 amp breaker only finding GFCI ones. Solution?

You’re not gonna find a 30 amp two pole dual function breaker because there are none on the market and 210.12 only requires afci protection for 120 volt circuits up to 20 amps

 

[pipe_bender]

I don't want to buy these breakers (about $150/each) if they won't work on a 10-2 plus ground hookup. I understand that these 2 wire circuits will trip the GFCI breaker as soon as the switch is thrown.

You'd need a 4-wire 10/3 with ground to the dryer I'd say GFCI not required on panel upgrade.. And in my opinion 4-wire is the only safety upgrade the code should require but doesn't, I recently had a issue with old 3-wire ranges putting neutral current on a gas main in a multi unit apartment house, converting the units to 4-wire fixed issue.

 

[O3man]

There is no code requirement for the water heater to have GFCI unless it is cord and plug connected with the receptacle in a location where 210.8 requires GFCI protection. As far as I know, there are no 30 amp water heaters listed for cord and plug connection.
If the appliance requires a neutral, you cannot use 10-2. Many dryers have a neutral connection.

Thanks Don, unfortunately for me, both the water heater and the dryer are connected to 3 conductor 30 amp receptacles and both devices are connected by 10-2 cables, hard wired at the device ends with plugs on the other end. Both the water heater and the dryer are in locations where 210.8 requires GFCI protection. The water heater is in the garage and the dryer is in the laundry room, as you would expect. As I said in my original note, I think the inspector will not require me to replace the existing (non-GFCI) breakers and, luckily, the existing breakers will fit into my new (Square D QO) load center. I'm putting in this new panel to clean up a rats nest of bad wiring that evolved in the years before I acquired the property and it will continue to bug the hell out of me that I can't bring the whole [place up to current code, unless I do a ton of expensive rework.

Once again, I'm new to this forum but I love the content and the information submitted by the professional members, who are obviously contributing to the safety of the consuming public.

 

[electrofelon]

Skipping a code cycle is tough. WA skipped the 08 and was hard lesson and they will never skip again

Just curious, why was this difficult for the codes and inspection departments? I always thought delaying or skipping a code to be a great thing for many reasons.

 

[Tulsa Electrician]

Wondering if the change to GFCI was simply because they starting running a water line to the dryers. Those front load dryer can have a water line ran to them. The new heat pump washer dryers combos as well.

 

[WD40]

both the water heater and the dryer are connected to 3 conductor 30 amp receptacles and both devices are connected by 10-2 cables,

Please don't continue to use the 'bare wire' in Romex for anything that can 'normally carry current' like a neutral for a residential 120/240 dryer, its only a equipment ground.
I have seen safety issues due to this many times and inspectors always tell me its illegal, and not 'grandfathered'. NEC 300.3(C) 310.106(D).

A '240V' electric water heater its fine to be on a 10/2 it has no neutral, remove the receptacle and cord and install a disconnect 'within sight' where the receptacle was and flex to the water heater. or you can use a lockable breaker.

 

[don_resqcapt19]

Wondering if the change to GFCI was simply because they starting running a water line to the dryers. Those front load dryer can have a water line ran to them. The new heat pump washer dryers combos as well.

No real technical reason for requiring additional GFCIs.

 

[Little Bill]

The water heater is in the garage and the dryer is in the laundry room, as you would expect. As I said in my original note, I think the inspector will not require me to replace the existing (non-GFCI) breakers and, luckily, the existing breakers will fit into my new (Square D QO) load center. I'm putting in this new panel to clean up a rats nest of bad wiring that evolved in the years before I acquired the property and it will continue to bug the hell out of me that I can't bring the whole [place up to current code, unless I do a ton of expensive rework.

I've never seen a water heater that legally had a cord and plug. I would do as was mentioned and have the water heater hardwired. Also would leave both the dryer and water heater on a regular breaker. Bringing something up to current code doesn't always make it safer. Besides, how many times have you been shocked by either of these appliances? Being as you only have two wires to the dryer, you're asking for nuisance tripping of the GFCI breaker as the grounded (neutral) conductor is bonded to the frame.

 

[Tulsa Electrician]

No real technical reason for requiring additional GFCIs.

Thank you

 

[O3man]

I've never seen a water heater that legally had a cord and plug. I would do as was mentioned and have the water heater hardwired. Also would leave both the dryer and water heater on a regular breaker. Bringing something up to current code doesn't always make it safer. Besides, how many times have you been shocked by either of these appliances? Being as you only have two wires to the dryer, you're asking for nuisance tripping of the GFCI breaker as the grounded (neutral) conductor is bonded to the frame.

I've never seen a water heater that legally had a cord and plug. I would do as was mentioned and have the water heater hardwired. Also would leave both the dryer and water heater on a regular breaker. Bringing something up to current code doesn't always make it safer. Besides, how many times have you been shocked by either of these appliances? Being as you only have two wires to the dryer, you're asking for nuisance tripping of the GFCI breaker as the grounded (neutral) conductor is bonded to the frame.

I've never seen a water heater that legally had a cord and plug. I would do as was mentioned and have the water heater hardwired. Also would leave both the dryer and water heater on a regular breaker. Bringing something up to current code doesn't always make it safer. Besides, how many times have you been shocked by either of these appliances? Being as you only have two wires to the dryer, you're asking for nuisance tripping of the GFCI breaker as the grounded (neutral) conductor is bonded to the frame.

Thanks Bill. I have never seen this either before this. I did learn how it got here. One of the previous owners of the property signed up for a load shedding agreement with the local utility so that he would receive a discounted electric rate in return for allowing the utility to shut off the water heater power during periods of high electricity demand. To accomplish this, the utility placed a controller between the heater and the outlet. They installed a plug and cord set up to facilitate the connections between the heater and the controller and another plug and cord between the controller and the outlet. (NOT code compliant) The controller later failed (actually burned out) and in order to get the heater working again, they plugged it directly into the wall outlet. I intend to do exactly as you said and hard wire both the dryer and the water heater. Thanks again.

Please don't continue to use the 'bare wire' in Romex for anything that can 'normally carry current' like a neutral for a residential 120/240 dryer, its only a equipment ground.
I have seen safety issues due to this many times and inspectors always tell me its illegal, and not 'grandfathered'. NEC 300.3(C) 310.106(D).

A '240V' electric water heater its fine to be on a 10/2 it has no neutral, remove the receptacle and cord and install a disconnect 'within sight' where the receptacle was and flex to the water heater. or you can use a lockable breaker.