I am an electrical contractor in Washington and got a call from a property manager regarding existing solder connections in switches. Maintenance guy sounded the alarm with "FIRE HAZARD",so now everyone is concerned. Went all looked at them today and they seem like great connections that are still taped nicely. Has anyone ran into this? Is it required to be updated? Seems fine to me...
Leaving existing solder connections?
- Thread starter rhovee
- Start date
- Status
- Occupation
- Licensed Electrician
I'd leave them alone unless someone wants to rewire the whole place.
- Location
- Placerville, CA, USA
- Occupation
- Retired PV System Designer
If they are mechanically sound without the solder (i.e. twisted rather than laid parallel) the NEC does not have any automatic problems with them.
Some people strongly dislike soldering connections for stranded wire since it can lead to a stress concentration that causes the strands to break under motion or vibration.
But in this case is will not be subjected to repeated bending and the tape will act as a strain relief of sorts if carried down the wire a ways.
- Location
- New Jersey
- Occupation
- Journeyman Electrician
Who knows, those solder connection might last another 50 years without failing but it's the tape used to insulate them that may fail first.
qcroanoke
Sometimes I don't know if I'm the boxer or the bag
- Location
- Roanoke, VA.
- Occupation
- Sorta retired........
I'd leave it alone.
There is nothing wrong with a soldered connection as long as they are mechanically secured (twisted) before soldering IMO.
Except that the NEC doesn't allow it on a equipment ground splice or termination. And I think that's ridiculous.....
There is nothing wrong with a soldered connection as long as they are mechanically secured (twisted) before soldering IMO.
Except that the NEC doesn't allow it on a equipment ground splice or termination. And I think that's ridiculous.....
kwired
Electron manager
- Location
- NE Nebraska
- Occupation
- EC
If mechanically secure before soldering - I would trust them more then the "wire nuts" that is likely to replace them.
I agree with the others- those old joints are fine as long as they were done correctly ( twisted before soldered).
If you decide to remove the old tape to inspect those joints, I would go back with a few layers 33+ half lapped sticky side out-starting about an inch or so beneath the bottom of the joint and ending in about a 1/2" excess past the top,( any excess is folded over) and then top that off with a couple of half lapped layers 33 sticky side down or better yet, temflex 1755 (the old fashioned and very sticky type of friction tape)- done that way, and I guarantee those things will be adequately insulated and will still that way almost forever. Of course if you don't want to tape 'em, there is always heat shrink.
It's always funny when folks will get worked up over a taped joint, but they don't know (or forget) that years back that was really the only way to insulate them- the trade has been an evolution. I could see though where some would have an issue due to ease of inspection- you can't see thru tape.
If you decide to remove the old tape to inspect those joints, I would go back with a few layers 33+ half lapped sticky side out-starting about an inch or so beneath the bottom of the joint and ending in about a 1/2" excess past the top,( any excess is folded over) and then top that off with a couple of half lapped layers 33 sticky side down or better yet, temflex 1755 (the old fashioned and very sticky type of friction tape)- done that way, and I guarantee those things will be adequately insulated and will still that way almost forever. Of course if you don't want to tape 'em, there is always heat shrink.
It's always funny when folks will get worked up over a taped joint, but they don't know (or forget) that years back that was really the only way to insulate them- the trade has been an evolution. I could see though where some would have an issue due to ease of inspection- you can't see thru tape.
- Location
- Illinois
- Occupation
- retired electrician
If I took the tape off for any reason, I would just screw a wire nut on the joint....I wouldn't be retape it.
- Location
- Tennessee NEC:2017
- Occupation
- Semi-Retired Electrician
You might as well cut & re-strip the conductors then as the wire nut will likely damage the solder. You could have a high resistance connection after that.
- Location
- Illinois
- Occupation
- retired electrician
The external solder that would be contacted by the wire nut spring has nothing to do with the electrical connection.
True- there would be no issue and if anything the wire nut would only compliment the preserving duties of the solder. I do agree if the ops joints are pigtails with plenty of room, then nutting would be a time saver. I do know that some have swore that there is a listing issue with this, which is of course complete nonsense.
My hang up about capping a soldered joint occurs when a nut can sometimes take up valuable real estate inside those small boxes- tape is more forgiving in that respect, and still a good option. It takes a little more time to do it, but we're talking less than a minute or so if someone knows what they're doing. The next big reason for not capping is some of the old splicing techniques used in switch boxes won't accommodate a nut, like the old Y-splice in which one end would terminate to a device.
- Location
- Tennessee NEC:2017
- Occupation
- Semi-Retired Electrician
Assuming the electrical connection was good before the solder was added.
Which is fairly easy to verify with a soldered joint- if the conductors were visibly pretwisted along with no signs of past overheating, then the joint is probably good. If it isn't broke, don't fix it. Otoh, if there is any sign of trouble, or evidence of a bad/crappy soldering job even though it was pretwisted , the antique needs to bite the dust, simple as that.
- Location
- Illinois
- Occupation
- retired electrician
If it wasn't the wire nut would only improve the connection, not make it worse.
I agree. I always have understood that other than electronic applications, a connection is secured mechanically first such as twiting the conductors together and then finishing with solder. Thus, the solder is not relied upon for the connection.
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