Legal to backstab and use side terminals?

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JohnME

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Just a question, was stealing power for another outlet off an existing circuit, the recep was backstabed with an in and an out, is it a violation to simply use the side screw to tap off for the new recep for the sake of saving time, or do I need to pigtail them, and run to the recep?

Thanks
 
If you have the UL white book you will find UL basically says they do not test for use of the side and back at the same time.
 
Very true, im surprised that they are not required to attach specs to these individual devices they sell. I always pigtail my new construction, its just tempting to backstab it or whatever and be done on tapping.
 
Jim W in Tampa said:
Where is the logic to this ? They can feed tru 15 amps on back stab but using the screw would heat it up ?
Click to expand...

My guess is that the manufactures have never felt the need to pay UL to test the devices using the back and sides at the same time.
 
From the 2005 UL white book, catagory "RECEPTACLES FOR PLUGS AND
ATTACHMENT PLUGS (RTRT)"

wired clamping types are suitable for use with both solid and stranded
building wires.
Screwless terminal connectors of the conductor push-in type (also
known as ??push-in-terminals??) are restricted to 15 A branch circuits and
are for connection with 14 AWG solid copper wire only. They are not
intended for use with aluminum or copper-clad aluminum wire, 14 AWG
stranded copper wire, or 12 AWG solid or stranded copper wire.
Single and duplex receptacles rated 15 and 20 A that are provided with
more than one set of terminals for the connection of line and neutral conductors
have been investigated to feed branch circuit conductors connected
to other outlets on a multi-outlet branch circuit, as follows:
Back wire (screw actuated clamp type) terminations with multiple wire
access holes used concurrently to terminate more than one conductor

Side wire (binding screw) terminals used concurrently with their
respective push-in (screwless) terminations to terminate more than one
conductor
Single and duplex receptacles rated 15 and 20 A that are provided with
more than one set of terminals for the connection of line and neutral conductors
have not been investigated to feed branch circuit conductors connected
to other outlets on a multi-outlet branch circuit, as follows:
Side wire (binding screw) terminal with its associated back wire
(screw actuated clamp type) terminal
Multiple conductors under a single binding screw
Multiple conductors in a single back wire hole
Duplex receptacles rated 15 and 20 A that are provided with break off
tabs may have those tabs removed so that the two receptacles may be
wired in a multi-wire branch circuit.
Click to expand...
 
By all means violate the Ul listing of the device it is so much easier to jam the 5 ,7, or 9 wires connected to the device into the box then it is to fold the 3 wires in.
Oh and make sure that when you make up all your wires in the box you keep them in the center of the box so theyare easy to get to.
try to make the job as difficult as you can for yourself.
please excuse the sarcasm
 
Besides the UL listing, is there any actual danger of doing this? I have done it once, and would like to sleep tonight!
 
Here's the way I see it: The screws and stab-holes obviously have adequate conductivity to transfer power from the wires to the slots, and so must have equal conductivity between each other.

If you can stab in and out, or screw in and out, you should be able to stab in and screw out, or screw in and stab out. I would mix types without hesitation, as long as we're talking clamp-type stabs.

If we're talking about a typical spring-loaded stab, I'd rather join the existing cables and pigtail the receptacle, and add the new cable to the other screws. Note: I only pigtail MWBC neutrals otherwise.
 
ryan_618 said:
From the 2005 UL white book, catagory "RECEPTACLES FOR PLUGS AND
ATTACHMENT PLUGS (RTRT)"

wired clamping types are suitable for use with both solid and stranded
building wires.
Screwless terminal connectors of the conductor push-in type (also
known as ??push-in-terminals??) are restricted to 15 A branch circuits and
are for connection with 14 AWG solid copper wire only. They are not
intended for use with aluminum or copper-clad aluminum wire, 14 AWG
stranded copper wire, or 12 AWG solid or stranded copper wire.
Single and duplex receptacles rated 15 and 20 A that are provided with
more than one set of terminals for the connection of line and neutral conductors
have been investigated to feed branch circuit conductors connected
to other outlets on a multi-outlet branch circuit, as follows:
Back wire (screw actuated clamp type) terminations with multiple wire
access holes used concurrently to terminate more than one conductor

Side wire (binding screw) terminals used concurrently with their
respective push-in (screwless) terminations to terminate more than one
conductor
Single and duplex receptacles rated 15 and 20 A that are provided with
more than one set of terminals for the connection of line and neutral conductors
have not been investigated to feed branch circuit conductors connected
to other outlets on a multi-outlet branch circuit, as follows:
Side wire (binding screw) terminal with its associated back wire
(screw actuated clamp type) terminal
Multiple conductors under a single binding screw
Multiple conductors in a single back wire hole
Duplex receptacles rated 15 and 20 A that are provided with break off
tabs may have those tabs removed so that the two receptacles may be
wired in a multi-wire branch circuit.
Click to expand...
Click to expand...

This quote from pages 109 & 110 of the UL white book shows that it is accepted by the test lab if you loop one wire around the side wire binding screw and push another wire in the push-in screwless back stab hole.

But it has not been tested or accepted by UL to loop one wire around the side wire binding screw and insert another wire in the back wire screw actuated clamp that is tightened by that same binding screw.

These two are obviously referring to two different types of receptacles. The first one is the basic price leader back stab recep. The second is the more expensive compression clamp recep that is speced for many commercial jobs.

It's also not tested or accepted to put multiple wires under the same screw or in the same hole.

Of course, as already mentioned in this thread, if manufacturers instructions are included, they have to be followed if they are more restrictive than UL listing.

When I inspect jobs that don't use pigtails, I take a look at the homeruns by the panel. On the rough, if I see any 3 wire HRs and noone from the electrical contractor is on site, I won't approve the job. It's the responsibility of the contractor to prove that there are no neutral pigtails missing from the shared neutral circuits. I don't have the time to track thru every box in every circuit in the whole job. If the contractor wants to skip using pigtails, it's his responsibility to show that he complies with 300.13(B).

We have one contractor in our county that never uses pigtails in any box that only contains two 12-2s, except for a pigtail on the grounding wire. But he never uses 3 wire HRs, so there is never a code issue with his jobs.

David
 
On the rough, if I see any 3 wire HRs and noone from the electrical contractor is on site, I won't approve the job.
Click to expand...

We wouldn't get along very well.

It's the responsibility of the contractor to prove that there are no neutral pigtails missing from the shared neutral circuits.
Click to expand...

Wrong.

I don't have the time to track thru every box in every circuit in the whole job.
Click to expand...

That's your job. If that's what it takes. YOU are the inspector, so inspect.
I would be happy to do your job for you, at my regular hourly rate, of course.

Besides, if there is say (3) MWBC's ran, you would typically need to look at (3) home run boxes to see if there are pigtailed neutrals. (But you already knew that, right?) That could possibly take , say 3 minutes tops.
That's something you look at while walking the rest of the house.

If the contractor wants to skip using pigtails, it's his responsibility to show that he complies with 300.13(B).
David
Click to expand...

Wrong again.
It is the Electrician's job to install it, it's the Inspector's job to Inspect it.
To not approve a job because of your lack of time, is outrageous!
:x
Go to the homerun receptacle(s), (the ones with MWBC's) and look (inspect) the box, for the required pigtail.
Each box after that does not require a pigtail.
It is NOT my job to hold your hand and lead you around to show you that I am in compliance.
 
ty said:
dnem said:
It's the responsibility of the contractor to prove that there are no neutral pigtails missing from the shared neutral circuits.
Click to expand...

Wrong.
Click to expand...

Wrong ?
I don't think so.
On the rough, the panel is almost never landed. Nine times out of ten there's a rats nest of homeruns twisted and hanging down in one spot in the basement.

ty said:
That's your job. If that's what it takes. YOU are the inspector, so inspect.
I would be happy to do your job for you, at my regular hourly rate, of course.

Besides, if there is say (3) MWBC's ran, you would typically need to look at (3) home run boxes to see if there are pigtailed neutrals. (But you already knew that, right?) That could possibly take , say 3 minutes tops.
That's something you look at while walking the rest of the house.
Click to expand...

"look at (3) home run boxes to see if there are pigtailed neutrals"
Like I said in my post, if there are no pigtails in the homerun boxes.

Think about this for a second.
How many neutrals can you backstab into the back of a plug ?
Two, right ?
So if you have a HR box with a 14-3 and the two circuits leave that box and snake around the house, how many Romexs are in the box ?
At least 3, right ? So you must have a pigtail.
The only time you get only two neutrals on a multiwire is when you have a 14-3 feeding in and only a 14-2 or 14-3 out. ( or 12 gauge if used )

On the rough, if I see one or more boxes with the following:
1) 3 conductor HRs at the panel
2) a box with two 3 conductor Romexs or one 3 wire and one 2 wire
3) no neutral joints made in that box
then you either have a receptacle violation of 300.13(B) or a missing neutral joint at a switch location.

Either way it's a violation. Something is missing !

And when I write it up as a 300.13(B) violation, the contractor needs to come back and add whatever is missing.

ty said:
dnem said:
If the contractor wants to skip using pigtails, it's his responsibility to show that he complies with 300.13(B).
David
Click to expand...

Wrong again.
It is the Electrician's job to install it, it's the Inspector's job to Inspect it.
To not approve a job because of your lack of time, is outrageous!
:x
Go to the homerun receptacle(s), (the ones with MWBC's) and look (inspect) the box, for the required pigtail.
Each box after that does not require a pigtail.
It is NOT my job to hold your hand and lead you around to show you that I am in compliance.
Click to expand...

If you do work that I inspect, you don't have to hold my hand. You just have to do it right.

David
 
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