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1793

1793

Senior Member
Location
Louisville, Kentucky
Occupation
Inspector
I just came back from a call today about removing a light in the kitchen and putting a ceiling fan in its place.

The HO had taken down the fixture and all I had to do was hang the fan. When I arrived I noticed that the J-box was the fiberglass type. From what I could see the box was mounted to the side of the joist for the floor above. No access from above.

I told the HO I would not install the fan with that box. I told them I needed to install a, for lack of better term, fan rated box.

Was I wrong?

How would I know if the existing box is rated for the fan?

What would you have done?

By the way, the customer told me they would get someone else that would hang the fan and much less than me.
 
I usually carry a fan rated bar box that is for old work. But, you did the right thing. I am sure that box was not rated for a fan so don't fret it.
 
I was always under the impression that the box had to be a "fan rated" box only if it was used as the supplort for the fan. A lag into the floor joist next to the box through the mounting bracket and still coverint the box is one way I have seen it done. Not sure of the code section though...If I am even correct
 
1793 said:
By the way, the customer told me they would get someone else that would hang the fan and much less than me.
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Stop charging $1793.00 for everything.


I would not hang a fan from a plastic box unless it was clearly marked as suitable for fan. Even then ......
 
cowboyjwc said:
You were correct.
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This statement is because in 2008 that code section will be changed to require all boxes to be fan rated that are for fans whether you support to the box or not.
 
Different types...

Different types...

Dennis Alwon said:
I usually carry a fan rated bar box that is for old work. But, you did the right thing. I am sure that box was not rated for a fan so don't fret it.
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I have about three different box sets I use for situations like this. I have the bar type, the side mount type and I have a few that I can install if there is an engineered beam(?).

The insisted that I should hang the fan because they have done it before.
 
1793 said:
I have about three different box sets I use for situations like this. I have the bar type, the side mount type and I have a few that I can install if there is an engineered beam(?).

The insisted that I should hang the fan because they have done it before.
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Well you did right-- let them do it again
 
Dennis Alwon said:
This statement is because in 2008 that code section will be changed to require all boxes to be fan rated that are for fans whether you support to the box or not.
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As far as I can see 314.27(D) and 422.18 didn't change as far as supporting a ceiling or paddle fan is concerned..What section are you referring to?
 
Still more

Still more

I also have the "J" type plastic for those times when I have the joist in the middle, I have the Saddle type for the same situation. I even have the 1/2" and 5/8" pancake boxes.
 
Chris6245 said:
As far as I can see 314.27(D) and 422.18 didn't change as far as supporting a ceiling or paddle fan is concerned..What section are you referring to?
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To be honest I have not seen the 2008 but a few members of the forum said that it was going to change.
 
Dennis Alwon said:
To be honest I have not seen the 2008 but a few members of the forum said that it was going to change.
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Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to argue but I have the 2008 open and those 2 sections have not changed. The only time a fan rated box has to be used is if it the "sole" support of the fan. I only use the lag into the joist on ceiling hugger fans because you have more room to hit the joist...It would be tough to do on a pendant mounted fan because the canopies are usually only big enough to covet the box.
 
When they originally called you,.. did you not give them a ballpark estimate ?? Did you expect to find a fan box installed for a kitchen light??
 
I got it from this guy perhaps it got cut last minuet???
NEC-2008 Analysis of Changes (Part 1)
by Michael J. Johnston​

A new last sentence adds specific requirements regarding the type of box that must be installed when two or more switched ungrounded conductors (switch legs) are roughed in to the box. The new requirement calls for a box that is listed for sole support of a ceiling-suspended paddle fan. This requirement applies to all occupancy types as it is currently worded. This affects the rough-in stages of all electrical installations where ceiling-mounted outlet boxes are installed and more than one switch leg is provided to the outlet. It is commonly understood that in many residential occupancies and some commercial occupancies, luminaires are sometimes replaced by a ceiling-suspended paddle fan at some time after the initial installation, but rarely are the proper listed boxes installed to accommodate the fan support requirements in the NEC. This new requirement takes a proactive approach through a rule that should help reduce the number of ceiling-suspended paddle fan installations that would be supported solely by boxes that are not designed or suitable for providing adequate support (see figure 5).
fig5.gif
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