Letter from the BBB...

[zappy]

I recived a complaint from a customer.He is not happy that i charged him for 2 1/2 hrs. and the problem is not fixed.I posted about this job a couple of days ago.I was troubleshooting the guy's fart fan,light over the toilet,light over the sink and a outlet.I explained to him this would be a hourly charge and i didn't know how long it would take.I admit it doesn't feel right charging somebody when i haven't fixed the problem.He wants me to just charge him for one hour and refund the rest,and he'll never call me again.When he told me to stop because of the time it was taking,he said how can i charge him when you haven't fixed it, i explained that you can't afford me to keep looking for the problem,i will find the problem i just need more time.So i'm probley going to refund some of his money back and figure out how to keep this from happening again.Any advice?Also how do you go about charging for troubleshooting?I'm thinking about making a troubleshooting contract that explains exactly that i am charging by the hour,and if you tell me to stop you will be charged even if the problem is not fixed.Thank you for your help.P.S plus this is a couple in there sixties so i really feel bad.I just want them to be happy,and to know that in no way was i trying to rip them off.

 

[480sparky]

If you get to a point that the customer asks you to stop before you've solved the problem, have them sign a release form stating such. If they are the one that stopped you, they cannot complain that you didn't find the problem.

 

[mdshunk]

I think you should be ashamed that it took you so long to not find a simple problem. Refund him in full.

 

[satcom]

We charge flat rate prices for troubleshooting, but you have have to know how to do it or you will loose your shirt, and if you know how to flat rate troubleshoot work you can make some nice money m many years ago we tried T&M for troubleshooting and nothing but prooblems, and customers left wondering how much it will cost, with up front pricing they know what it will cost before you move ahead.

 

[mdshunk]

Tuition is expensive, and not all customers are willing to pay for your schooling. There have been a couple times in the past (thankfully, far in the past ) where a customer has tried to cut me off due to time. This is what I did... I tell them, "Okay, the clock stops now, but this is getting a little personal for me. Would you mind if I kept troubleshooting this on my time? We'll start the clock again after I find the problem, so I can fix it. That will be okay, won't it?".

I'm not saying this is a good approach, but it is one that I've used successfully in the past.

 

[celtic]

I think you should be ashamed that it took you so long to not find a simple problem. Refund him in full.

:-?

I think we need to know the "W"'s on the situation before the OP is fed to the wolves.

Zappy...spill the W's:
What was the problem?
Why did it take so long?
Etc
Etc
Etc

 

[celtic]

We charge flat rate prices for troubleshooting, but you have have to know how to do it or you will loose your shirt, .....

How do find a buried JB in a multi-family home?

 

[480sparky]

How do find a buried JB in a multi-family home?

Who says the splice is in a box?

 

[celtic]

Who says the splice is in a box?

Ok...let's re-phrase.

Where is the break in the wire:
- in an accessible JB/device box,
- in a buried JB,
- in a mysterious flying splice the result of a previous HO's act of "spontaneous construction"?


How much and how long to find and fix/repair?

 

[quogueelectric]

Should you be able to charge for complete and udder failure??

 

[480sparky]

....

How much and how long to find and fix/repair?

I'm gonna be like the cable guy on this one..... sometime between 5 minutes and next July.

 

[celtic]

I'm gonna be like the cable guy on this one..... sometime between 5 minutes and next July.

LMAO.....good one :grin:

 

[480sparky]

LMAO.....good one :grin:

But that's my point...... there's no way to know how long it will take to fix a mysterious problem. And if it's intermittent, even longer.

I've found open circuits within 30 seconds of walking in the front door. Sometimes I've spend half a day tracking down a j-box buried in the insulation in the attic.

 

[celtic]

But that's my point......

...and that is a fine point too!

When I first came on this board, I had a troubleshooting issue [ it's buried in the archives now I guess...couldn't find it ]...it all boiled down to option C ~ the flying splice due to spontaneous construction and many dollars.

A couple of weeks ago, I had another troubleshooting call.
3 hours...found, fixed, done.
Different animal.

In the first case it was all T&M, the second flat rate.

You have to know your animal.

 

[480sparky]

.......You have to know your animal.

Unfortunately, we're like the blind men and the elephant sometimes..... until you find the problem, you don't know what it truly is.

And HOs are the worst source of information.

 

[tkb]

I wouldn't refund anything and dispute the complaint.
Just because he told you to stop and was too cheap to let you continue is no reason he should file a complaint.

Keep the money.

 

[celtic]

Unfortunately, we're like the blind men and the elephant sometimes..... until you find the problem, you don't know what it truly is.

And HOs are the worst source of information.

Very true.

In the first case, it was HO problem ~ they had cut the BX many years previously, and even though the HO was literally sitting under it...he couldn't remember it was there ...until we were about ready to rewire the 3rd floor.
This was an older home[50+] and "problems" were anticipated [but not to this degree] on my part.

The last one was in a home about 30+/- yrs old.
That boiled down to a simple CB swap out.

 

[satcom]

How do find a buried JB in a multi-family home?

The reason we have 5 rate levels for troubleshoot, and we have the customer approve before we go to the next level, with a buried JB you could be talking a good days work, so with a $XXX aproval for a days work we will proceed,

Funny, we priced one for a days work, and sure eniough a J bos was in the cement wall covered, easy to find with isolation and tone generators, but if you you don't have the experience and tool, don't flat rate it.

 

[quogueelectric]

Even a blind squirrel finds a nut once in a while.

 

[nafis]

you should not be emotional in business

you should not be emotional in business

Just my opinion

You need to ask yourself why you are in business. Is it Money or to be a quality service provider with reasonable service fees. it should not take you more than one hour to find and fix the problem . about two years ago I had the same problem with a different scenario . got a call to install some light fixtures in a very old house. the folks were old, as well as the house . in the family room the folks had an existing medallion with layers of paint probably from the age of my Egyptian ancestors . the wife was very hard to deal with . anyway I verbally explained to the husband before I did any work that it is an old medallion and the new light canopy is smaller than the old one so as a result some paint might come off making it necessary to repaint around the new canopy. he said I understand, go ahead and do it so I proceeded to complete the work .i got it done and received payment. about an hour later I received a call from the person who referred this customer saying I broke the medallion. I called the customer and spoke with the wife and told her that I explained every thing to her husband and he said he will paint around the canopy . anyway, long story short I ended up giving them what marc suggested in the above post:

Thank you and good luck