Letter from the BBB...

[alfiesauce]

I agree with Marc.
The homeowner is not paying you to learn on the job. You are always learning yadda yadda yadda, but you can't expect to get paid full rate for all of your learning time... imo.

The other day I had a lady who I couldn't fix one of two things that she wanted me to fix. The first task was easy and took about 40 minutes. I figured I would attempt the second one. I gave it my best shot and couldn't find the problem after 40 minutes of messing around.
I ended up billing her a service call- the one hour minimum she was told to expect when she called us. That means I ended up eating 20 minutes of time, and because I'm who I am I ate a 1/2 hour off my time card.
She was sad I couldn't fix it for her, but she was very happy about the billing solution and because of that will probably be a repeat customer, or atleast be worth some word of mouth advertising because of it.

 

[nafis]

wondering what was the 2nd problom you could nt fix...

 

[jrannis]

Tuition is expensive, and not all customers are willing to pay for your schooling. There have been a couple times in the past (thankfully, far in the past ) where a customer has tried to cut me off due to time. This is what I did... I tell them, "Okay, the clock stops now, but this is getting a little personal for me. Would you mind if I kept troubleshooting this on my time? We'll start the clock again after I find the problem, so I can fix it. That will be okay, won't it?".

I'm not saying this is a good approach, but it is one that I've used successfully in the past.

When I first started out on a service truck, I did the "stop the clock" trick too. I worked out about even for me when the customer gave me a $50 tip.
For some reason,maybe out of guilt or something, I would have rather had the time on the ticket and just had them pay the regular hourly rate.

 

[jeremysterling]

Troubleshooting can be challenging, rewarding, demanding, and frustrating. I hate that someone else, electrician or otherwise, can solve and fix any problem after I gave up. My ego has been so deflated after some of these, I was ready to give up the trade. The shame so unbearable, I refused my wage.

Sometimes the HO can help, sometimes the apprentice is the second set of eyes you need, sometimes a call to the boss is something he has seen before, sometimes a post on a forum is an objective step back with two steps forward.

I will always cherish the memories of solving some of these riddles. I was an overhead crane technician for five years and solved some really challenging control and operation problems, both electrical and mechanical. Yet my top fix was as a young maintenance electrician at a dirty fab-shop/rig-up yard. There was a large hydraulic band saw for cutting very large steel beams, that exhibited an intermittent function problem. The operator would press the start button, sometimes it would work, sometimes not. The manufacturer's tech, two EC's, several mechanics and our small but courageous maintenance dept could not solve this problem. Nearly six months had passed when I finally found it. A "vestigal" (i.e. unused but wired in) timer/counter with a worn set of contacts. I bypassed the counter and gave a whoop heard through the shop.:grin:

I like Marc's analogy of customer paying for the tuition.

OP, Please dispute the BBB complaint. Only you know if the money is yours.:smile:

 

[iwire]

Should you be able to charge for complete and udder failure??

Doctors, and Lawyers do.

 

[jeremysterling]

Should you be able to charge for complete and udder failure??

Doctors, and Lawyers do.

I didn't know doctors and lawyers had udders, I though that was a dairy part.

Hey, that's OK, I've been on some troublecalls that I milked like cereal.

 

[iwire]

I didn't know doctors and lawyers had udders, I though that was a dairy part.

Regardless of the cows joke the point remains that many professions charge for the time, not the result.

 

[wbalsam1]

Tuition is expensive, and not all customers are willing to pay for your schooling. There have been a couple times in the past (thankfully, far in the past ) where a customer has tried to cut me off due to time. This is what I did... I tell them, "Okay, the clock stops now, but this is getting a little personal for me. Would you mind if I kept troubleshooting this on my time? We'll start the clock again after I find the problem, so I can fix it. That will be okay, won't it?".

I'm not saying this is a good approach, but it is one that I've used successfully in the past.

This seems to be an excellent business model to me. Fair all the way around.

Should you be able to charge for complete and udder failure??

Only if you have enough "pull"! :grin:

 

[Pierre C Belarge]

As Bob has mentioned, lawyers and doctors (who both charge for unsolved cases and ailments ), how about a failed surgery for 10's of thousands of dollars, and the same for a failed case by a lawyer? These happen every day all over the country.

When an EC has a written policy for troubleshooting, these kind of problems are not as prevalent. I know it sounds like it is hard to institute, it is not.
One other component to a successful plan is the proper education for the troubleshooter, combined with the written plan.

Either institute a written plan or eat the money.

 

[steelersman]

I think you should be ashamed that it took you so long to not find a simple problem. Refund him in full.

Marc you should just tell him your honest opinion. Stop sugar coating it.

 

[steelersman]

How do find a buried JB in a multi-family home?

you use a JB finder. Kinda like a stud finder but much more fancier and expensive.

 

[celtic]

Tuition is expensive, and not all customers are willing to pay for your schooling.

Who pays for helpers/apprentices?

OJT comes to mind...

 

[jeremysterling]

Should you be able to charge for complete and udder failure??

True Story:

Electrician was troubleshooting the dairy's sour milk. The electrician discovered stray voltage and objectionable current at the milking machine chassis causing the cow to experience unpleasant sensations at the sensitive teats of the mammary organ. And, YES, he charged the dairy for udder failure.

Only if you have enough "pull"! :grin:

 

[bradleyelectric]

you use a JB finder. Kinda like a stud finder but much more fancier and expensive.

go you have a link for this?

 

[celtic]

go you have a link for this?

This might help:

The new personal electric hammer....makes a great stocking stuffer, too!

 

[bradleyelectric]

the d is 2 keys from the g.

 

[jeremysterling]

the d is 2 keys from the g.

unless sung in the key of e#

 

[electricguy61]

Tuition is expensive, and not all customers are willing to pay for your schooling. There have been a couple times in the past (thankfully, far in the past ) where a customer has tried to cut me off due to time. This is what I did... I tell them, "Okay, the clock stops now, but this is getting a little personal for me. Would you mind if I kept troubleshooting this on my time? We'll start the clock again after I find the problem, so I can fix it. That will be okay, won't it?".

I'm not saying this is a good approach, but it is one that I've used successfully in the past.

That's good customer service! It pays off in the end, doesn't it Marc.

In these times when new construction is so slow, we're still real busy. We've never been too busy to take small service calls, we've learned to be willing to take a small loss to maintain good customer relations, and most importantly, we've learned to admit our mistakes or short comings. Most customers appreciate honesty instead of trying to cover up or blaming someone or something else. We're still getting service calls when many other contractors are starving for work.

 

[TwinCitySparky]

Tuition is expensive, and not all customers are willing to pay for your schooling. There have been a couple times in the past (thankfully, far in the past ) where a customer has tried to cut me off due to time. This is what I did... I tell them, "Okay, the clock stops now, but this is getting a little personal for me. Would you mind if I kept troubleshooting this on my time? We'll start the clock again after I find the problem, so I can fix it. That will be okay, won't it?".

I'm not saying this is a good approach, but it is one that I've used successfully in the past.

Next time I stop in at my local Chevy dealership, and my mechanic sais he still cant pinpoint that "come and go" ghost issue thats causing my van engine to hesitate, I'm going to inform him that this is what my electrician does for me when he cant find the problem and I definetly expect the same from them.

That should go over like a fart in church.

 

[TwinCitySparky]

Who pays for helpers/apprentices?

OJT comes to mind...

This makes me think of my first year apprenticing on a resturant job. My boss walks into the room and sees me wrestling with some conduit and sais: Lets not allow the customer to think that this is a classroom and we are learning on his time. I gave him the OK nod and tried to look like I really knew what I was doing, but all I could think is: Dang it! This IS a classroom and I AM learning on thier buck!

How do you "mind over matter" that one... :-?