Letter from the BBB...
- Thread starter zappy
- Start date
- Status
jaylectricity
Senior Member
- Location
- Massachusetts
- Occupation
- licensed journeyman electrician
roger3829
Senior Member
- Location
- Torrington, CT
I think almost anybody could troubleshoot and fix a fart fan in less time than it takes to read all these posts if the problem was as complicated as a bad switch or a bad breaker or even a bad fan. That should definatly take less than 3 hours.
But..... If it was as easy as finding a bad splice in a box, finding a bad splice buried in a box in the wall/ceiling, finding a bad splice without a box, finding rodent chewed wires... etc..... Then who knows how long it could take to find the problem, plus then fix it correctly without damaging the building or damaging it as little as possible.
That's where the time factor comes into play.
- Location
- Massachusetts
Don't you think there is a point where a good service person should know when to give up looking for the problem and just find a way to re-feed the circuit? :smile:
ultramegabob
Senior Member
- Location
- Indiana
Yep........
hardworkingstiff
Senior Member
- Location
- Wilmington, NC
Bob,
The only concern I have about re-feeding the circuit without knowing where the problem is, is how do I insure I don't put voltage where it shouldn't be?
roger3829
Senior Member
- Location
- Torrington, CT
What he said........:smile:
ultramegabob
Senior Member
- Location
- Indiana
did you take meter readings at the exhaust fan? are you missing power or neutral? did you take all the connections apart and find where power comes in and out? did you did you check each of the switch legs for continuity? its a process of elimination....
macmikeman
Senior Member
- Location
- Planet macmikeman
growler
Senior Member
- Location
- Atlanta,GA
Where do you plan to re-feed this circuit from. It's not just the exhaust fan but also the vanity light and the receptacles. Any new wiring would require that the circuit be brought up to code and that's a dedicated circuit from the panel. That may not be all that simple to do.
Then there is the fact that you didn't locate the problem in the first place which means that you may be leaving a hazardous condition behind.
People hire a professional to look out for their best interest. Leaving live bad wiring is not in the customer's best interest. If you can find both ends of a conductor it's normally easy enough to locate the break and if you can't find both ends how will you disconnect it.
- Location
- Massachusetts
I think your turning a simple fix into an ordeal and that is not necessarily in the best interest of the customer either.
roger3829
Senior Member
- Location
- Torrington, CT
If the entire house is finished, panel in the garage at the other end of the house, how do you just "re-feed it"?
- Location
- Massachusetts
I thought I was talking to electricians.:-?
Maybe there is an attic, maybe a basement or crawl, or maybe a nearby lightly loaded circuit I don't know I was not there.
I did not say it can always be re-fed but if I can't figure out the problem with a bath fan in 3 hours it is time to change tactics before I run out of daylight. :roll:
When you refeed, you disconnect the original, non working feed.
I thought of this thread this morning.
Resi troubleshoot, no power to the living room switches and 2 receps. I diagnosed it (95% probabability) in 5 seconds as a bad backstabbed recep.
HO offered that "no elec work had been done". I replied "that will make it easier if it is all stock wiring"
Took apart everything close. 4 sw boxes and 6 receps.......... nothing. Double and triple checked all connections and thought about heading upstairs. An hour was about gone as I went to the garage. There was a pull down attic stairway and the moment I looked up there I knew the problem would be here. Several open splices and jbs were visable.
HO added a recep in the garage by tapping the LR circuit. Loose orange wirenut. Problem solved and repaired in 1 minute.
I should know enough to discount anything a HO says.
roger3829
Senior Member
- Location
- Torrington, CT
So did I.
Maybe there was an attic. Maybe it was a 1st floor bath with finished rooms above and below. I don't know either as I was not there.
Would you tap a non-working bathroom receptacle onto a 15a bedroom circuit because that was the closest circuit?
I think it would be best to repair the existing circuit whenever possible.
You shouldn't.....but I never say never.....unless I am saying never say never, in which case I have to say never to make my point.
In an 60's era house, the bath recep may have already been on the closest bedroom 15A circuit. All you are doing it is putting it back how it was. It should be upgraded but there are cases in which money dictates the extent of the repair.
G & G Electric
Member
Wow, everything has been discussed, everything but how to help this guy with his troubleshooting skills. Verify voltage at the switch to ground and to your neutral, trace circuit to breaker, and turn off. Back at the switch, do a continuity test on all wires that you believe that switch feeds and/or are made up in the switch box. After you've identified all your wires, check resistance. All that shouldn't take no more that 25 min - TOPS. By the time you've undone the joints to do your continuity test, you've likely found the problem. If there is a short in the neutral (or hot, or whatever) between the exhaust fan and the switch, and it's buried in sheetrock or totally inaccesable, then cut the wire at both ends and re-feed. Problem figured out and solved in 1 to 1 1/2 hours. It would be hard for me to look a customer in the eyes if I would have to return due to faulty workmanship or if I couldn't find a problem in 10 feet of wire between a switch and a fan. But that's just how I roll...
growler
Senior Member
- Location
- Atlanta,GA
This all sounds good but you broke the first rule of trouble-shooting. You didn't find out what problem you are trying to find. It's the feed to the bathroom that's missing and not 10 ft of wire between the fan and the switch.
The OP stated that the lights, receptacle and fan are not working and he can not located the bathroom feed. No power to switches or receptacle.
...and he broke the second rule:
Collateral damage
Sure the "repair" might be done in 1.5 - 2 hours....but what about patchwork?
Just how is this thing going to refed?
...and how long/much will the repair to any collateral damages take?
Again:
Now that we have rambled on for 14 some odd pages discussing varioius mind bending dilemmas like:
- birds,
- buried/cut cables
- pricing options
- what real men do/don't do
- xmas lights
- ....and who knows what else
Are we any closer to having a question answered by the OP?
I think we need to know the "W"'s on the situation before the OP is fed to the wolves.
Zappy...spill the W's:
What was the problem?
Why did it take so long?
Etc
Etc
Etc
Have the wolves had their feast?
Have the vultures had their fill now as well?
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