Leviton going for it

[Worlds Gr8est Electrician]

what would be the reason for no Alum, seems dumb if alum is sized properly.
plus if you can afford and EV just buy a hard wired version.

Most manufacturers spec 90 degree rated conductors.

 

[AC\DC]

Most manufacturers spec 90 degree rated conductors.

That does not effect aluminum ,conductors rating is based on insulation

 

[marmathsen]

I've seen a couple of the Leviton 279 (50A) receptacles melt. We started using the Hubbell HBL9450A based on our own experiences and word on the street that the Leviton couldn't handle the duty cycle. The Hubbell from either of my suppliers is around $129 ea. without a special pricing agreement (SPA), with an SPA we pay around $80

I've also been reading the news about the struggles that car manufacturers are having with demand of EVs but I have a hard time believing that's anything more than temporary. I think EVs are coming whether the auto manufacturers, electricians, POCOs are ready or not.

 

[gene6]

In general, this is really an issue with the product listing standards...compliance with the existing product standard can result in receptacle failures where the receptacle supplies an EV.

The problem with the listing standard is not the 50A receptacle its the garbage aluminum wire.

 

[marmathsen]

I've seen a couple of the Leviton 279 (50A) receptacles melt. We started using the Hubbell HBL9450A based on our own experiences and word on the street that the Leviton couldn't handle the duty cycle. The Hubbell from either of my suppliers is around $129 ea. without a special pricing agreement (SPA), with an SPA we pay around $80

I've also been reading the news about the struggles that car manufacturers are having with demand of EVs but I have a hard time believing that's anything more than temporary. I think EVs are coming whether the auto manufacturers, electricians, POCOs are ready or not.

Both of which state that they are industrial grade

Rob G - Seattle

 

[AC\DC]

The problem with the listing standard is not the 50A receptacle its the garbage aluminum wire.

what's wrong with Aluminum, if your going to take that approach, screw that inferior copper wire and go with Silver!

 

[gene6]

what's wrong with Aluminum,

My problem is with the zombie corporate aluminum lobby from the 70's that keeps pushing the line that you can terminate small AWG aluminum like copper, same torque no noalox, then people act all surprised when an aluminum termination gets exposed to damp air then thermal runaway takes off and melts down a receptacle. Then they blame the receptacle or the workman.

 

[AC\DC]

My problem is with the zombie corporate aluminum lobby from the 70's that keeps pushing the line that you can terminate small AWG aluminum like copper, same torque no noalox, then people act all surprised when an aluminum termination gets exposed to damp air then thermal runaway takes off and melts down a receptacle. Then they blame the receptacle or the workman.

Never had a problem with Aluminum. Any problem I ever see is from bad terminations.

 

[hbiss]

Not seeing it.

100,000 per month?? Yeah, right. Or maybe they are giving them away.

-Hal

 

[electrofelon]

Never had a problem with Aluminum. Any problem I ever see is from bad terminations.

I use AL extensively, down to #6 for almost every range. I have never had any callbacks.

 

[AC\DC]

I use AL extensively, down to #6 for almost every range. I have never had any callbacks.

ya, Larry got me hocked on SER Alum

 

[electrofelon]

I think there is a problem with the quality and product standards for receptacles. I think many of us would not be comfortable using a recep at it's max rating. Shouldn't it be able to do that reliably?

 

[letgomywago]

I use AL extensively, down to #6 for almost every range. I have never had any callbacks.

Last couple years 8-3 has been cheaper but before that I was 6 al ser almost exclusively

 

[letgomywago]

ya, Larry got me hocked on SER Alum

The 75 degree columb is nice and the wire can take a beating vs romex and the sheath won't fray. Also wet rated so it can be left in the back of the truck or bone pile and no moisture issues

 

[don_resqcapt19]

But if you have different grades of product, all evaluated to the same product standard, how is the different grade defined?

If a receptacle exceeds the standard by 10% in some respect (say contact area) and another exceeds by 40%, how would a customer determine if those differences are meaningful?

Jon

Totally up to the manufacturer...there is no product standard requirements for heavy duty, commercial, industrial, or even EV grade receptacles. There are all listed to the same product standard, with some manufacturers adding more contact surface area, contact pressure, or making other changes to their product to improved the reliably of it.
The customer would have to rely on the manufacturer's information, or do a tear down of the device and compare it with a "standard" device.
In the case of the receptacles used for EV, you can make part of your judgement just based on weight of the device.

 

[LarryFine]

ya, Larry got me hocked on SER Alum

 

[gene6]

Any problem I ever see is from bad terminations.

Right and you probably see problems from dry AL terminations not copper, statistically a "properly terminated" to UL spec small wire aluminum termination is more likely to fail than the equivalent copper one.
Detailed independent tests of UL486C by the U.S. Consumer Product Safety Commission have proved it insufficient for AL wire. The manufacturers bamboozled UL into approving 'dry' wire terminations with their huge checks and they will plague the US for decades to come. The EV chargers were just the latest thing to trust aluminum with a large thermocycling load and got burned.

 

[curt swartz]

Right and you probably see problems from dry AL terminations not copper, statistically a "properly terminated" to UL spec small wire aluminum termination is more likely to fail than the equivalent copper one.
Detailed independent tests of UL486C by the U.S. Consumer Product Safety Commission have proved it insufficient for AL wire. The manufacturers bamboozled UL into approving 'dry' wire terminations with their huge checks and they will plague the US for decades to come. The EV chargers were just the latest thing to trust aluminum with a large thermocycling load and got burned.

We all get you don't like AL wire.

As far as EV receptacles. I have never seen a failed receptacle in person but all of the pictures I have seen have had 2 things in common.

(1) Leviton power receptacles, which in my opinion are garbage after they redesigned them years ago.
(2) Supply wires connecting the receptacle were copper.

 

[letgomywago]

We all get you don't like AL wire.

As far as EV receptacles. I have never seen a failed receptacle in person but all of the pictures I have seen have had 2 things in common.

(1) Leviton power receptacles, which in my opinion are garbage after they redesigned them years ago.
(2) Supply wires connecting the receptacle were copper.

Always a romex too not ever copper SER or thhn.

 

[don_resqcapt19]

The issue I have with these failures is the listing requirements. No conductive part is permitted to have more than a 30°C rise under the test conditions in the listing standard.
Those conditions are first the receptacle is subjected to 50 make and brake cycles at 150% of the rated current. After that the receptacle is run at 100 of rated load until there is no additional temperature rise for 3 consecutive temperature measurements taken 5 minutes apart.
If the device passes that, I see no reason why it would fail in the field, other than installation error, or the manufacturer making changes after the original listing changes that are not being caught by the required random testing of the on going production.