License to buy material

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iwire

iwire

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Location
Massachusetts
Maybe (likely?) it was different in each area. 50 years ago around here you could go into Sears and purchase panels, wire, breakers, fuses boxes most anything a HO might need.
 
mivey

mivey

Senior Member
hbiss said:
Livelihood= yours as in choosing to be an EC.

Manufacturers and distributors only care about their profits, not that you could be losing business or your job because of their policies. Nor do they care about some hack putting himself or his family in danger.

This is just typical of the social climate in this country where nobody takes responsibility for anything.

-Hal
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Plenty of hack ECs out there. One plumber I hired turned out to be a hack so I wound up just fixing the install myself rather than looking for another plumber.

AHJ inspections are no guarantee of a good or safe job done either. Sometimes it is more about the permit fee and property tax increases than safety.

Some jurisdictions may have a very good program but I have found that to be rare. YMMV.
 
peter d

peter d

Senior Member
Location
New England
mivey said:
Plenty of hack ECs out there. One plumber I hired turned out to be a hack so I wound up just fixing the install myself rather than looking for another plumber.

AHJ inspections are no guarantee of a good or safe job done either. Sometimes it is more about the permit fee and property tax increases than safety.

Some jurisdictions may have a very good program but I have found that to be rare. YMMV.
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I agree, in my area most inspections are a joke and I see lots of hack work done by "professional" electricians. It most definitely is about collecting permit fees where I live.
 
hbiss

hbiss

EC, Westchester, New York NEC: 2014
Location
Hawthorne, New York NEC: 2014
Occupation
EC
jim dungar said:
This isn't a totally new issue.

Some 50 years ago, almost every licensed electrical contractor had a store front that sold parts to walk-in DIY customers. Most of the time the sale was made by one of the office staff, many of which were not qualified to answer questions or provide advice (the knowledgeable staff was out working on jobs). The one I used the most was Kafura Electric, because I could ride my bike there.
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Sure, I remember that but they were selling repair/replacement items, not panels and coils of wire. But those storefronts were sure a good way to get jobs.

iwire said:
Maybe (likely?) it was different in each area. 50 years ago around here you could go into Sears and purchase panels, wire, breakers, fuses boxes most anything a HO might need.
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Yup. The Sears catalog. I always thought a lot of the major electrical items were for people in rural or farm areas where everyone did there own work. Here, the local store didn't carry much beyond replacement items.

-Hal
 
kwired

kwired

Electron manager
Location
NE Nebraska
jim dungar said:
This isn't a totally new issue.

Some 50 years ago, almost every licensed electrical contractor had a store front that sold parts to walk-in DIY customers. Most of the time the sale was made by one of the office staff, many of which were not qualified to answer questions or provide advice (the knowledgeable staff was out working on jobs). The one I used the most was Kafura Electric, because I could ride my bike there.
Click to expand...

hbiss said:
Sure, I remember that but they were selling repair/replacement items, not panels and coils of wire. But those storefronts were sure a good way to get jobs.



Yup. The Sears catalog. I always thought a lot of the major electrical items were for people in rural or farm areas where everyone did there own work. Here, the local store didn't carry much beyond replacement items.

-Hal
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I still sell "over the counter" items occasionally. Usually items you won't find at local hardware store or local store is sold out of an item.
 
J

jim dungar

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Wisconsin
Occupation
PE (Retired) - Power Systems
hbiss said:
Sure, I remember that but they were selling repair/replacement items, not panels and coils of wire.
-Hal
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The EC storefronts in Wisconsin and the Upper Peninsula had no problem selling service entrance equipment along side their 2-wire receptacles.
 
peter d

peter d

Senior Member
Location
New England
Long before HD and Lowes came to town, we had the small regional "big box" stores that everyone has forgotten about. I remember they had a full electrical department where you could buy panels, breakers and pretty much everything to do a residential project.
 
F

fastfingers48

New member
Location
Newport News,Va
stevenje said:
The issue is not the material you can purchase. It is the enforcement of the existing laws and licenses that are required to install electrical systems.
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It is also a liability issue , most home owners are required to purchase a permit for the work that is done and to have it inspected by the local authority . This is done so the work is covered by insurance to protect all involved....
 
B

blkmagik21

Senior Member
Location
Kennewick
peter d said:
Long before HD and Lowes came to town, we had the small regional "big box" stores that everyone has forgotten about. I remember they had a full electrical department where you could buy panels, breakers and pretty much everything to do a residential project.
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But the price was higher at those stores than at an electrical parts shop. So contractors paid less and homeowners paid more.

Now days with Google, Wikipedia, and YouTube; everyone thinks they know what they are doing with electrical. Although still a good amount of people respect electricity and won't touch it. There are a lot that don't and will just wire something up how they want, and if it works then they think it's fine.
4771454065d4a986d621c69d1687a6e6.png



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blkmagik21

Senior Member
Location
Kennewick
As I stated earlier:

There should be a law to limit the purchase of electrical items besides one box of outlets, one box of switches, and a few covers.
To buy anything else, it should be required that either you are an electrical contractor, or have proof of an electrical permit prior to selling parts.


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iwire

iwire

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Massachusetts
blkmagik21 said:
As I stated earlier:

There should be a law to limit the purchase of electrical items besides one box of outlets, one box of switches, and a few covers.
To buy anything else, it should be required that either you are an electrical contractor, or have proof of an electrical permit prior to selling parts.


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Absolutely not, I hope there never is such a law.
 
mbrooke

mbrooke

Batteries Included
Location
United States
Occupation
Technician
cesincmd said:
It is my opinion that it should be required to have a license to purchase electrical material.

do you agree?

here is why I think this
as an electrical contractor I have to have a masters license to be in business and in my area it takes 7 years in the trade just to take the test. So once you have that you must have insurance and then a county business license. If you have people working for you they are required to have a journeyman's license in which you must have four years in the trade before you can test for this license. So my problem is that anybody with a check or cash can walk into a big box store or an electrical distributor and buy all the wrong material. I see this all the time. go to a job and all mismatch material. Mismatched wire to panel or circuit breakers plastic box with MC an so on and on.
My proposal would be that you must have a license to buy panels, disconnects, wire, boxes, CB, meter cans, etc. allow items like light fixtures, devices, wall plates, light bulbs, small quantities of wire ( like under 100') and under 6 AWG to be purchased without a license. In my area you can take a easy test to do wiring in your own home. So a homeowner can take the test and purchase the material he/she would need to do wiring in there own home.
This is a really simplistic brief proposal but I see all time time people buy all the wrong material for the job. for the large majority of us who are working hard to install the correct materials in a professional manner I think it makes us look bad and unsafe when we allow anybody to buy all the wrong material.
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IMHO it would just create a black market for material. People will DIY, and Hack men will hack. In this day and age Americans are more strong willed then ever, so nothing will stop those who want to express their rights as a home owner.
 
mbrooke

mbrooke

Batteries Included
Location
United States
Occupation
Technician
blkmagik21 said:
As I stated earlier:

There should be a law to limit the purchase of electrical items besides one box of outlets, one box of switches, and a few covers.
To buy anything else, it should be required that either you are an electrical contractor, or have proof of an electrical permit prior to selling parts.


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It sounds great on paper, and I get where you are coming from. But often reality often says otherwise with history being the ultimate proof of that. Prohibition?


Also: A Home owner can burn down a home without ever buying a cover plate. Should we ban screw drivers from the general public?
 
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