Licensed handymen doing electrical work

[FionaZuppa]

This was a response to Fiona's claim that licensing serves no useful purpose for the client. I might hire a handyman to fix my deck railing, but he's not touching the dead outlet right next to it.

missing the point. a homeowners choice.

and "monkey-mike" is simply not a licensed anything. if mike can install boxes, pull the right wire, snap in the right ocpd, and the AHJ inspection says "yep, looks good", then the risk is about the same as if a licensed electrician did the work. everyone, homeowners and the trade, have reasonable expectations that the AHJ inspectors know what they are doing. if we didnt then the "inspector trade" would be useless.

sure, a licensed electrician is way more knowledgeable and trustworthy (most, not all). monkey-mike is just way less expensive and an option for some homeowners, etc.

 

[JFletcher]

This was a response to Fiona's claim that licensing serves no useful purpose for the client. I might hire a handyman to fix my deck railing, but he's not touching the dead outlet right next to it.

As electricians, we certainly feel, and have the right to feel that way. However, as someone who has more than a passing interest in accidents of many types, I would no more hire a handyman to fix a deck railing, especially if it was more than a few feet off the ground, than I would to fix an electrical outlet.

Old, poorly maintained decks are perhaps bigger death (or at least injury) traps than older poorly-maintained electrical systems.

 

[Coppersmith]

if mike can install boxes, pull the right wire, snap in the right ocpd

That's a big "if". We already have a system in place to verify that monkey-mike knows how to do that stuff. It's called licensing. Without it, the homeowner has no idea of monkey-mike's skill level.

I have worked for house flippers who employ handy-persons to do everything in the renovation including the electrical and plumbing. Then they call me in when a few things aren't working. Among the dangers I have found are numerous reverse wired outlets, joints without boxes, and a dishwasher wired with zip-cord. Not dangerous, but still an issue are numerous miswired 3-way switches.

and the AHJ inspection says "yep, looks good", then the risk is about the same as if a licensed electrician did the work.

I will reiterate that the inspector cannot catch every violation especially if the installer is making a concerted effort to hide them. I never see an inspector crawl through an attic checking work. At most, they poke their head up through the scuttle hole and shine a flashlight around. Never seen one crawl under a house either. I once heard of one doing it. I've done many commercial jobs where 90% of the work was in a suspended ceiling. Inspectors never climbed a ladder and popped a tile to check, just looked at the 4x4 boxes installed in the tiles from the ground.

 

[K8MHZ]

A picture is worth 1000 words. This splice was intermittently shutting off power to half the house. It was inside a 'fake' ceiling beam. It took hours to find.



I am pretty sure a licensed electrician would not have made such a splice and then buried in in a ceiling beam.

 

[kwired]

so a handicapped person who's hands are crunched up and dont work well HAS TO USE A LICENSED GUY/GAL ??? that is stupid.
if a monkey does the work it still needs to be inspected, etc. so it should make no diff as to who does the work, to-code is no different than to-code, etc.
what you describe is a tactic to protect the trade (licensed folks), which i do not agree with. :thumbsup:

Many other professions/trades have similar licensing laws. Many non qualified individuals do illegal work in those other trades/professions as well. Not all are bad. Not all licensed people are good either.

whether or not an insurance claim is paid out has nothing to do with who does the work. that risk is on homeowner. mandating that a homeowner use a licensed labor person is nothing more than protecting the trade. monkey-mike and licensed HappySunshineElectrical both do the exact same work, and both are inspected via same AHJ, then what concern is there? i am pretty sure if the home burns to ground and the investigators find it was due to the newly installed electrical wires, it doesnt matter if it was monkey-mike or HappySunshineElectrical, one of them is being sued.

there is no argument to be had that inspections mean different things depending on who did the work. or perhaps you are claiming that all inspections are rather useless, and in that case might as well abolish the requirement to have inspections. bad inspectors in on the AHJ, not homeowner. i am also rather certain that there are "reasonable expectations" at the lawsuit level that the AHJ "inspectors" are expected to know what they are doing, and are trained to do the job, either by direct training or by proof of experience.

Insurance is very good at not paying claims on technicalities, not having a licensed person do work that requires a license is an easy excuse for not wanting to paying a claim, and even more so if that work is a direct cause for the claim.

missing the point. a homeowners choice.

and "monkey-mike" is simply not a licensed anything. if mike can install boxes, pull the right wire, snap in the right ocpd, and the AHJ inspection says "yep, looks good", then the risk is about the same as if a licensed electrician did the work. everyone, homeowners and the trade, have reasonable expectations that the AHJ inspectors know what they are doing. if we didnt then the "inspector trade" would be useless.

sure, a licensed electrician is way more knowledgeable and trustworthy (most, not all). monkey-mike is just way less expensive and an option for some homeowners, etc.

Less expensive up front, maybe, maybe not when there are complications.

 

[ramsy]

..if mike can install boxes, pull the right wire, snap in the right ocpd, and the AHJ inspection says "yep, looks good"

The only thing your missing is Duct Tape, and Paint to hide flying splices behind the walls.

 

[peter d]

In my area, the politically well connected are exempt from the scrutiny of inspections. I know of a large area builder where no inspector ever sets foot on the job in a particular town.

Inspectors are highly subject to corruption in my area, which is why I consider our permitting and licensing process nothing more than a money grabbing formality.