Licensed handymen doing electrical work

[K8MHZ]

"handy-person" (sorry, according to Purdue Univ, the use of "man" is no longer a good word) can ask homeowner to get permit, then the handy guy or gal will do the work on behalf of the homeowner, and then inspected accordingly.

Here when you get a homeowner's permit, there is a part you have to sign and swear that you will be the one doing the work, not a handy being.

 

[Besoeker]

well actually , I do most job , but usually if amps larger than 200A, or something have to deal with the INSPERTOR I will work with my boss who is master licence


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kylelee
Where do you reside?

 

[Besoeker]

hmmm .........are we assuming nationality ?.... maybe he was from norway, or ireland ??? :- )

Or 多伦多

 

[RumRunner]

Recently finaled revamp home project. Cost thirty grand for the balcony/terrace.
I pulled a homeowner permit. Too big for a single homeowner to do single handedly so I parted-out jobs not to exceed $500 each.

Those Irish Norwegian handymen named Pablos and Hectors saved me a lot of money. Considered household help, my home insurance did not require workman compensation coverage.

Although the project lasted four months, each handyman's work did not take over three days to complete. Takes a bit of planning and close supervision and no issue/incidents to contend with.
A big portion of the job I did with my son.

 

[Coppersmith]

"handy-person" (sorry, according to Purdue Univ, the use of "man" is no longer a good word) can ask homeowner to get permit, then the handy guy or gal will do the work on behalf of the homeowner, and then inspected accordingly.

Still a good word, just not inclusive in certain contexts.

Here when you get a homeowner's permit, there is a part you have to sign and swear that you will be the one doing the work, not a handy being.

Same here. Handy-Homo sapian is not legally allowed to do work under a homeowner's permit.

 

[Besoeker]

"handy-person" (sorry, according to Purdue Univ, the use of "man" is no longer a good word) can ask homeowner to get permit, then the handy guy or gal will do the work on behalf of the homeowner, and then inspected accordingly.

I am of the impression that Kylelee is not from Indiana...........

 

[Andy Delle]

About every 3 months the fire inspector in our township comes by our shop unannounced. Every time he finds something we have to change. We changed our HPS light fixtures out with LEDs. We had the old HPS fixtures on a skid in the shop. The fire inspector walked in looked at the skid of HPS fixture and then looked up. He then made us pull an electrical permit for changing the fixtures. I should have thrown out the old fixtures right away. He probably would have never noticed the new fixtures.

I may be wrong but I think the fire inspector does have that authority in pubic building or business?

 

[Besoeker]

I'm going to vote for Ireland. Sounds more like an Irishman to tell an inspector to effon off. Or maybe just a little Irish blood mixed in.

How about Toronto?

 

[gadfly56]

hmmm .........are we assuming nationality ?.... maybe he was from norway, or ireland ??? :- )

Around here I'm pretty sure they can only change light bulbs (handymen........ Norwegian and Irish ).......... homeowners (single family and they live there) can do their own work, but lately inspectors have been asking them to have a licensed electrician seal the permit.

Which clueless jurisdictions have been trying to do this? And what license holder in his right mind would apply his seal to a homeowner's permit???

 

[FionaZuppa]

Here when you get a homeowner's permit, there is a part you have to sign and swear that you will be the one doing the work, not a handy being.

so a handicapped person who's hands are crunched up and dont work well HAS TO USE A LICENSED GUY/GAL ??? that is stupid.
if a monkey does the work it still needs to be inspected, etc. so it should make no diff as to who does the work, to-code is no different than to-code, etc.
what you describe is a tactic to protect the trade (licensed folks), which i do not agree with. :thumbsup:

 

[Coppersmith]

so a handicapped person who's hands are crunched up and dont work well HAS TO USE A LICENSED GUY/GAL ???

Unfortunately, Yes.

what you describe is a tactic to protect the trade (licensed folks), which i do not agree with. :thumbsup:

Personally, I like that rule very much. The state required that I have 12,000 hours of experience before they would even consider giving me a license. Then I had to pass tests and get statements from previous employers as to why I'm worthy. Why allow an unlicensed person, who may have zero experience, do electrical work for pay? The state is already making an allowance for homeowners to commit suicide by doing their own bad electrical work. They even get to kill the rest of their family.

I would like to see the state hunt down and jail unlicensed contractors not only because they are dangerous, but because I am protecting the livelihood I spent much time and money developing.

 

[K8MHZ]

so a handicapped person who's hands are crunched up and dont work well HAS TO USE A LICENSED GUY/GAL ??? that is stupid.
if a monkey does the work it still needs to be inspected, etc. so it should make no diff as to who does the work, to-code is no different than to-code, etc.
what you describe is a tactic to protect the trade (licensed folks), which i do not agree with. :thumbsup:

I don't make the rules.

"To obtain electrical permits, an applicant shall be an electrical contractor or specialty contractor licensed by a municipality or by the State Electrical Administrative BoardOr
A homeowner performing electrical work in a single family home and accompanying outbuildings owned and occupied, or to be occupied, by the person performing the installation."

 

[ramsy]

..if a monkey does the work it still needs to be inspected, etc. so it should make no diff as to who does the work, to-code is no different than to-code, etc.
what you describe is a tactic to protect the trade (licensed folks), which i do not agree with. :thumbsup:

Inspected electrical has no relationship to code compliance.

We have HUD housing & municipal combination inspectors, competely clueless of GCFI replacement code, much less Tamper Resistant, or AFCI code. After losing budgets for electrical specialists, and subsequent years of incompenence, Permits & Inspection case precident enjoys indemnity from litigation risk, immune to procecution, except for malicious intent.

Weather its missing batteries in the smokes, or missing A/GCFI’s with the granite counter tops, the windfall goes to the insurance industry denying claims for cause. The inspectors are not liable, and the fool owners suffer a complete loss without a licensed GL policy to save them.

In my State a Form exists for reporting the unlicened, unpermitted, and illegal advertising. Many contractors submit the forms to the License Board hoping its creates some kind of barrior to entry into the market.

The enforcement division protects licensed handypersons, usually General contractors without an electrical specialty. In doing so, the board ignores several labor & advertising laws, and turns a blind eye to laborers severely screwing up commercial & domestic electrical, which go undetected by the clueless-combination inspectors.

 

[Besoeker]

I wonder if KylLee is related to Bruce Lee?

 

[FionaZuppa]

Inspected electrical has no relationship to code compliance.

We have HUD housing & municipal combination inspectors, competely clueless of GCFI replacement code, much less Tamper Resistant, or AFCI code. After losing budgets for electrical specialists, and subsequent years of incompenence, Permits & Inspection case precident enjoys indemnity from litigation risk, immune to procecution, except for malicious intent.

Weather its missing batteries in the smokes, or missing A/GCFI’s with the granite counter tops, the windfall goes to the insurance industry denying claims for cause. The inspectors are not liable, and the fool owners suffer a complete loss without a licensed GL policy to save them.

In my State a Form exists for reporting the unlicened, unpermitted, and illegal advertising. Many contractors submit the forms to the License Board hoping its creates some kind of barrior to entry into the market.

The enforcement division protects licensed handypersons, usually General contractors without an electrical specialty. In doing so, the board ignores several labor & advertising laws, and turns a blind eye to laborers severely screwing up commercial & domestic electrical, which go undetected by the clueless-combination inspectors.

whether or not an insurance claim is paid out has nothing to do with who does the work. that risk is on homeowner. mandating that a homeowner use a licensed labor person is nothing more than protecting the trade. monkey-mike and licensed HappySunshineElectrical both do the exact same work, and both are inspected via same AHJ, then what concern is there? i am pretty sure if the home burns to ground and the investigators find it was due to the newly installed electrical wires, it doesnt matter if it was monkey-mike or HappySunshineElectrical, one of them is being sued.

there is no argument to be had that inspections mean different things depending on who did the work. or perhaps you are claiming that all inspections are rather useless, and in that case might as well abolish the requirement to have inspections. bad inspectors in on the AHJ, not homeowner. i am also rather certain that there are "reasonable expectations" at the lawsuit level that the AHJ "inspectors" are expected to know what they are doing, and are trained to do the job, either by direct training or by proof of experience.

 

[gadfly56]

whether or not an insurance claim is paid out has nothing to do with who does the work. that risk is on homeowner. mandating that a homeowner use a licensed labor person is nothing more than protecting the trade. monkey-mike and licensed HappySunshineElectrical both do the exact same work, and both are inspected via same AHJ, then what concern is there? i am pretty sure if the home burns to ground and the investigators find it was due to the newly installed electrical wires, it doesnt matter if it was monkey-mike or HappySunshineElectrical, one of them is being sued.

there is no argument to be had that inspections mean different things depending on who did the work. or perhaps you are claiming that all inspections are rather useless, and in that case might as well abolish the requirement to have inspections. bad inspectors in on the AHJ, not homeowner. i am also rather certain that there are "reasonable expectations" at the lawsuit level that the AHJ "inspectors" are expected to know what they are doing, and are trained to do the job, either by direct training or by proof of experience.

As to point one, insurance companies WILL refuse a claim if the loss can be traced to work done by an unlicensed party, where such licenses are required. As to point two, licensing is often accompanied by insurance requirements. If Joe Handyman burns down your house and has no insurance, there's no one for you, or your insurance company via subrogation, to collect from. From that perspective, it definitely is a measure that protects the public.

 

[Coppersmith]

monkey-mike and licensed HappySunshineElectrical both do the exact same work

(I'm assuming here that you mean that monkey-mike is not a licensed EC, but is working under the homeowner's permit.)

This is rarely true. A licensed EC is more knowledgeable and more likely to meet the requirements of the NEC regardless of whether the job is permitted and inspected. Even if monkey-mike is a journeyman electrician doing a side job, in general, he is not as knowledgeable as an EC.

and both are inspected via same AHJ, then what concern is there?

Inspectors rarely look at every part of the job. It's easy to hide unsafe work in attics, underground, inside walls, etc. Therefore, the homeowner has to rely on the integrity of the electrician. IMHO, a licensed EC is going to have more integrity here because they have to meet code day in and day out. Someone doing a side job is going to take shortcuts.

 

[ramsy]

..insurance companies WILL refuse a claim if the loss can be traced to work done by an unlicensed party, where such licenses are required..

Never met another handyperson, besides myself, that cares if they void their clients property insurance, much less with a clue about electrical code.

 

[kylelee]

kylelee
Where do you reside?

Toronto ，BTW， i misread the Handyman to journeyman


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[gadfly56]

Never met another handyperson, besides myself, that cares if they void their clients property insurance, much less with a clue about electrical code.

This was a response to Fiona's claim that licensing serves no useful purpose for the client. I might hire a handyman to fix my deck railing, but he's not touching the dead outlet right next to it.