Light Bulbs -- truth in advertising?

[petersonra]

I don't see why the wattage equivalent be any easier. Why not just the actual? That's what I use. But then I can see old pharts (and some not so old) want some kind of "equivalence|" to to old style...........
Bit like their old Imperial weights and measures....................

The average consumer does not care about how many lumens it is. They just want an approximation of how bright it is.

Personally, I find that for the most part LED bulbs do not seem as bright to me, even with the same number of lumens as an incandescent bulb.

 

[drcampbell]

... Bit like their old Imperial weights and measures ...

Sure, like the refrigeration ton. Even the oldest old pharts still practicing weren't around when it originated, and almost none of today's practitioners have any idea how or why it originated, but it still persists.

I resist & ridicule at every opportunity, but to little avail.
"This house will need a three-ton air conditioner."
"I guess that means we're going to need to tear down the fence and gravel the front lawn to accommodate a three-ton forklift."
"That's not what an air-conditioning ton means."
"Oh? What does it mean?
[blank stare, like a dog trying to comprehend a magic trick]

The average consumer does not care about how many lumens it is. They just want an approximation of how bright it is. ...

Sure. They want an approximation of luminosity, but without using a unit of luminosity. No inherent conflict there.
And they want seven perpendicular red lines drawn with green ink.

 

[petersonra]

Sure, like the refrigeration ton. Even the oldest old pharts still practicing weren't around when it originated, and almost none of the practitioners know how or why it originated, but it still persists.

I like tons. I would bet more people know where it comes from than you might think.

 

[Besoeker3]

they protect your wallet by limiting you to buying 25 at a time.

How many, I thought? Then I started counting them all up.............!

 

[petersonra]

How many, I thought? Then I started counting them all up.............!

I get the cheap ones at walmart. they are about $1.50 each right now for 60 W equivalents. I bought some a couple years ago when ComED was subsidising the price. I think they were 99 cents for four back then. Wish I had bought several packages more. I would be set for light bulbs for life.

 

[Besoeker3]

Interesting points here and I appreciate that.
The Imperial topic just kinda gives me a bit of fun/amusement. Apologies for the diversion.....................

 

[drcampbell]

I like tons. I would bet more people know where it comes from than you might think.

Unless something has radically changed in the few years since I mostly retired, I might think about 30% of people over fifty years old and about 15% of people under fifty know how it originated. And about 75% "know" that a ton is 12k BTU, (not BTU per hour) but don't know why.

 

[Besoeker3]

Unless something has radically changed in the few years since I mostly retired, I might think about 30% of people over fifty years old and about 15% of people under fifty know how it originated. And about 75% "know" that a ton is 12k BTU, (not BTU per hour) but don't know why.

Good old Thermal Units. Well, I know what they are, me being British of course. But I don't think I have used them ever in anger. They were before my time - quite a few decades ago.

 

[Fred B]

The average consumer does not care about how many lumens it is. They just want an approximation of how bright it is.

Personally, I find that for the most part LED bulbs do not seem as bright to me, even with the same number of lumens as an incandescent bulb.

Agreed, they just want to know how bright. Another factor not being discussed that I think effects the brightness beyond lumen is the K value. A 5000k will look alot brighter at given lumen than a 2500K. For that reason I've been using more of the adjustable K mini canless lights, would like to find that on a bulb. It would make it easier getting customer the lighting level they want, given most don't even know about lumens or K values, easily can spend 15 -20 minutes trying to explain why the 9W bulb can replace the 60W (or whatever the mfg equivalent). A lot of customers just say "I just want a 60W bulb". Do they even make a full 60W LED bulb (not equivalent)? Would like one on the truck (along with welding glasses, lol), just to show the stubborn customer. A guess is it probably would be in the neighborhood of 20,000 lumen.

 

[drcampbell]

Corn COB LED Bulb 60 Watt with E39 Mogul Base 5000K IP64

Buy 250w HPS MH HID replacement, corn cob LED bulb 60w, IP65 waterproof with E39 mogul base for high bay, post top and shoebox retrofit 5000K daylight

www.monyled.com

 

[drcampbell]

"I just want a 60-watt bulb."
Be cautious what you ask for; you might just get it:

Corn COB LED Bulb 60 Watt with E39 Mogul Base 5000K IP64

Buy 250w HPS MH HID replacement, corn cob LED bulb 60w, IP65 waterproof with E39 mogul base for high bay, post top and shoebox retrofit 5000K daylight

www.monyled.com

I find it difficult to believe that anybody over forty failed to notice the sound & fury and wailing & gnashing of teeth over incandescent lightbulbs during the Obama administration. (and equally difficult to believe that anybody under forty just wants an old-timey incandescent bulb)

My dad -- who watches way too much fox news -- bought ten cases of incandescent lightbulbs because "Obama's going to make lightbulbs illegal.". Not only did he not think through the political reality of trying to do away with electric light, (in his mind, the more-efficient substitutes would not be available) he didn't do a very good job of estimating how many lightbulbs a then-80-year-old guy would ever need.

I will be inheriting them in the foreseeable future. Maybe I'll develop a side hustle restoring vintage E-Z-Bake Ovens.

 

[gadfly56]

"I just want a 60-watt bulb."
Be cautious what you ask for; you might just get it:

Corn COB LED Bulb 60 Watt with E39 Mogul Base 5000K IP64

Buy 250w HPS MH HID replacement, corn cob LED bulb 60w, IP65 waterproof with E39 mogul base for high bay, post top and shoebox retrofit 5000K daylight

www.monyled.com

I find it difficult to believe that anybody over forty failed to notice the sound & fury and wailing & gnashing of teeth over incandescent lightbulbs during the Obama administration. (and equally difficult to believe that anybody under forty just wants an old-timey incandescent bulb)

My dad -- who watches way too much fox news -- bought ten cases of incandescent lightbulbs because "Obama's going to make lightbulbs illegal.". Not only did he not think through the political reality of trying to do away with electric light, (in his mind, the more-efficient substitutes would not be available) he didn't do a very good job of estimating how many lightbulbs a then-80-year-old guy would ever need.

I will be inheriting them in the foreseeable future. Maybe I'll develop a side hustle restoring vintage E-Z-Bake Ovens.

It was the whole "Ve are ze governmint und you vill comply" approach that ticked people off. At the cost and lifetime of CFL's, which were the option then pushed, it did not make economical sense. Now, LED's are clearly a better bargin for lifetime cost over incandescents. The market at work, no officious governmental haranguing needed.

 

[drcampbell]

Um, that's precisely what government is supposed to do -- mandate collective action that the "free" [sic] market cannot.
In this case, protecting us from coal smoke, black-lung disease and acid rain.

Did you Do the Math? Except in isolated circumstances of very-low energy costs -- WHOOPS Power or an off-grid installation with abundant capacity, perhaps -- a CFL only had to last 800 hours to break even on cost. Even when Phillips was the only game in town and their bulbs were $18 each, they still saved money. The invisible hand of the "free" market can't work its magic when 99% of people don't know what a kW·hour is, don't know what they pay for them, can't be bothered or stubbornly resist.

 

[winnie]

Unless something has radically changed in the few years since I mostly retired, I might think about 30% of people over fifty years.

Funny: I was just in the back of the house with my 10 yr old daughter and she asked about replacing the old AC units. I said "this is a 2 ton unit, the other is 1.5 tons" and she responded that they don't look that heavy. Then I got yo explain what a refrigeration ton was.

Jon

 

[winnie]

Even when Phillips was the only game in town and their bulbs were $18 each, they still saved money. The invisible hand of the "free" market can't work its magic when 99% of people don't know what a kW·hour is, don't know what they pay for them, can't be bothered or stubbornly resist.

They saved money when their actual life was a large enough fraction of their rated life. But early on I saw lots of failures of lamps with few hours on them. No money saved.

Jon

 

[gadfly56]

Um, that's precisely what government is supposed to do -- mandate collective action that the "free" [sic] market cannot.
In this case, protecting us from coal smoke, black-lung disease and acid rain.

Did you Do the Math? Except in isolated circumstances of very-low energy costs -- WHOOPS Power or an off-grid installation with abundant capacity, perhaps -- a CFL only had to last 800 hours to break even on cost. Even when Phillips was the only game in town and their bulbs were $18 each, they still saved money. The invisible hand of the "free" market can't work its magic when 99% of people don't know what a kW·hour is, don't know what they pay for them, can't be bothered or stubbornly resist.

Since you started this, my response is BS, MS, and PHD and that's as much as I'm going to say.

Yes, I "Did the Math", using actual life times I was seeing that were pretty much identical to incandescents, and no, they didn't break even at 800 hours. They were claiming 25,000 hours on CFL's when they first came out. Then, 13,000, then 3 hours per day for 3 years or about 3,300. Even that was a stretch, in my experience.

 

[mikeames]

The invisible hand of the "free" market can't work its magic when 99% of people don't know what a kW·hour is, don't know what they pay for them, can't be bothered or stubbornly resist.

Yes it can. That means it does not have a large enough impact for people to care on a macro level. The market is macro and its free. Just because people don't behave as you believe they should does not violate a free market. You even wrote "stubbornly resist". If they do want you want is it free then? If electricity cost skyrocketed and quadrupled then you would likely see people paying more attention to thermostat setbacks, HVAC, air infiltration, insulation, passive solar heating and shielding, LEDS, appliance usage etc. Fortunately electricity (for the most part) is a stable efficient commodity source of energy.

 

[GoldDigger]

Since you started this, my response is BS, MS, and PHD and that's as much as I'm going to say.

Yes, I "Did the Math", using actual life times I was seeing that were pretty much identical to incandescents, and no, they didn't break even at 800 hours. They were claiming 25,000 hours on CFL's when they first came out. Then, 13,000, then 3 hours per day for 3 years or about 3,300. Even that was a stretch, in my experience.

There were some indications that the turn on cycles had a much stronger effect on CFL life than consumers were told about.

 

[drcampbell]

A laissez-faire economic system cannot initiate collective action to protect ourselves from coal smoke and black-lung disease when their costs are not included in the price of electricity.

Externality - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[gadfly56]

A laissez-faire economic system cannot initiate collective action to protect ourselves from coal smoke and black-lung disease when their costs are not included in the price of electricity.

Externality - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Black lung disease is compensated by a program run by the DOL and financed by an excise tax on coal. Producer pays. Try again.

The days of smoke-belching power plants are long in the past, thanks to electrostatic precipitators. Producer pays. Try again.

What is not needed are any taxes on top of the costs already incurred. If society wants to tighten up the requirements, they can do that straight up and amend the appropriate statutes, not by taxing "carbon."