limit for using romex on apt building

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Re: limit for using romex on apt building

down here usually you dont get holiday pay till your there 90 days
i get it payed and even got a winn dixie card to buy food.Really nice of them
 
Re: limit for using romex on apt building

At the company I work for, benefits start after 6 months (including holiday pay)
But holiday pay does not count towards overtime, and it seems we get busy and have to work Saturdays at straight time on Holiday weeks almost every year.
 
Re: limit for using romex on apt building

The good news is you do not have to work for those companies. You can find a better company, or start your own, then you can see how easy it is and how rich the owners are. ;)
 
Re: limit for using romex on apt building

Giving vacation pay and holiday pay does cost your boss $$$$ .He should figure in 2% for a 1 week vacation and another 2% for 5 payed holidays.So that $15 an hour guy actually makes $15.60 ,Sounds small but adds up.Small companies might not be able to handle this.Keep in mind that while you enjoyed your day off your boss had no profits or income from any jobs.Most try to offer vacations and holiday pay as a way to keep you.
 
Re: limit for using romex on apt building

Generally, that is a distinction between union and merit shops. If you get paid only for the hours worked, it is union and the pay is considerably higher. If you get paid sick time, holidays, vacation, insurance, etc., it is a merit shop and less pay per hour but you get the benefits instead. Generally, the smaller merit shops have less benefits than the larger ones.

These are a lot of general statements and all of them can be different depending upon where you are working. :D
 
Re: limit for using romex on apt building

Good to know I'm not on this boat alone!

Electricmanscott---

Your statement should be a pinpoint achievement that we all should want! And it signifies what we all could do!

[ November 27, 2004, 05:28 PM: Message edited by: resistance ]
 
Re: limit for using romex on apt building

Jim, your argument against NM cable isn't very convincing:

I have seen fires that started from romex.Yes as a result of over fusing
Click to expand...
The problem has nothing to do with the wiring method. Overfusing can and will burn up any conductor whether it is in pipe, MC cable, romex, knob and tube or bell wire.
 
Re: limit for using romex on apt building

yes it will burn but mc and emt will likely hold the flame within themself.There is just to much damage that can cause fires for me to call romex = to other systems.Staples,walked on,pinched,mice,rats.If within budget i would prefer emt or mc.Just my opinion.
 
Re: limit for using romex on apt building

PVC gives off a deadly gas when it burns and it will kill you if you inhale it.
I think the reason for NM cable restriction in certain buildings and places of assembly was due to the fact that if large quantities of PVC products were used in these places the danger of death by smoke inhalation increased.
The restrictions have to do with safety and money.
 
Re: limit for using romex on apt building

Alan that may be a valid point but there are so many other things that will be burning I am not convinced that some romex will be the death blow. As stated before why would it be ok to breath these fatal gases in a residence but nowhere else. As far as I am concerned the only thing that drives this is the manufacturing lobby, and unions. Where is the "safety" issue.
 
Re: limit for using romex on apt building

We would have to have access to information on how many fires NM and plastice boxes contribute to as opposed to EMT and metal boxes.
I don't know if that kind of study has ever been done.
EMT sure does make it easier to add circuits or replace damaged wire. The first installation cost is higher but add ons and remodels are cheaper.
 
Re: limit for using romex on apt building

Just what do they charge for NM rough openings as opposed to EMT openings. Circuits could be a wash since you can get so many in a conduit.

[ November 28, 2004, 09:40 AM: Message edited by: russ ]
 
Re: limit for using romex on apt building

Originally posted by russ:
EMT sure does make it easier to add circuits or replace damaged wire. The first installation cost is higher but add ons and remodels are cheaper.
Click to expand...
I think that really depends on two things.

1)Does the EMT go where you need the new circuit?

2)What product you are used to using?

It is hard to say you can run EMT to a new location faster than doing the same thing with cable.

As far as the number of circuits possible that is still limited to a great extent by derating rules.
 
Re: limit for using romex on apt building

Large quantities of poly-vinyl-chloride will produce large quantities of deadly gas when it burns.
Rules change, not because the gas is less deadly;
I suspect it has to do with money,politics and manufacturers.
 
Re: limit for using romex on apt building

Alan I do not think any of us dispute that NM makes deadly smoke.

But THHN in pipe makes deadly smoke also, the only thing we gain in a pipe job over NM is no outer jacket to produce smoke.

The NM will be spread threwout the building and covered by a Sheetrock.

IMO the smoke from the furnishings in the building will kill you long before the smoke from the NM.

As I sit here on my upholstered chair beside my upholstered couch (the foam in these produce a lot of poisonous smoke) watching my predominately plastic TV, typing on my plastic keyboard connected to my plastic computer, all of which are sitting on my synthetic rug it is hard to imagine that the few runs of NM threw the walls of this room will make much of a difference in my surviving a fire.


I believe this issue has much more to do with lobbyist than safety and that is disturbing. :(

Just my two cents, Bob
 
Re: limit for using romex on apt building

Besides the furniture Bob mentions, what about the PVC plumbing inside walls and ceilings.?

NM has a very safe track record, and percentage wise it probably hasn't been the cause of any more death or damage than other wiring method and most likely less.

Roger
 
Re: limit for using romex on apt building

1)Does the EMT go where you need the new circuit?

ANS. That's when it saves you time is when you can pull a new circuit to the area that you need it. When all the openings in the house are piped it's hard to imagine not being able to get close to where your going.

2)What product you are used to using?

ANS. I'm in an area that only uses metal conduit. I don't think that has alot to do with what I was trying to say.

It is hard to say you can run EMT to a new location faster than doing the same thing with cable.

ANS. It is probably easier to run new NM to a new location. Scratch probably and make that got to be unless it a relatively flat pipe run.

As far as the number of circuits possible that is still limited to a great extent by derating rules.

Ans. Four arc-faults = 1, 1/2"conduit, 6 kitchen circuits = 1, 1/2" but probably a 3/4" conduit, instead of multiple NM cables.

Still wounder how much the contractor saves the home owner/buyer per rough opening for NM instalations over EMT?

[ November 28, 2004, 11:50 AM: Message edited by: russ ]
 
Re: limit for using romex on apt building

Still wounder how much the contractor saves the home owner/buyer per rough opening for NM instalations over EMT?
Click to expand...
That is hard to say, given all the other variables. But, it is probably a significant amount given the high prices of EMT and THHN, not to mention the added cost of metal boxes and pipe fittings. Long gone are the days of $1 pieces of 1/2" EMT and $19 rolls of #12 THHN.

--------

These "pipe versus romex" discussions always feel like a merry-go-round. The fact remains, there will always be the naysayers for a particular wiring method. You can run pipe all day long, and I can do the same job with cable and it will be just as safe, and cost less money.


I certainly have my bias in favor of cabled wiring methods because, well, they are excellent methods with a safe track record. :) That isn't going to change in this neck of the woods any time soon. :D
 
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