List price or T+M

[Jerseydaze]

I recently got hooked up with a central air company .And I am trying to figure out the best way to charge them. They are mostly updating old systems so the jobs are small for me an example is yesterday I went to a job and brought stuff up to code add a switch and receipt in attic,add a WP gfi outside also I added a 240 v circuit and switch for new blower old was 110 .We were in and out in 2.5 hours I feel like I work fast there for T&M I am working myself out of money.Opinions pls

 

[masterinbama]

I would figure a minimum charge + T+M. I do trailer connections for a few local parks almost always the existing flex and wire is long enough so I am only on site about 30 minutes and I can pull permits online so my total time is less than 1 hour.My minimum is $150 + permit cost

 

[Sparky555]

One of the downsides to T&M is that as you gain experience, use time-saving tools and get more productive...you're paid less unless you raise your hourly rate to match your increased productivity.

Dave

 

[emahler]

One of the downsides to T&M is that as you gain experience, use time-saving tools and get more productive...you're paid less unless you raise your hourly rate to match your increased productivity.

Dave

Good luck with that. Most consumers are unable to do simple math. They only comprehend the rate, they are unable to factor in and multiply time.

 

[growler]

We were in and out in 2.5 hours I feel like I work fast there for T&M I am working myself out of money.Opinions pls

You said we were in and out in 2.5 hours. I take there were two of you. That's 5 man hours right there. How much time to get the permit? If I can't get a permit on line it will take at least another hour to get a permit.
OK we are billing for 6 man hours at normal rate, plus travel and Admin. plus a fuel sur-charge, plus materials and markup. plus permit cost.

If your normal rate is high enough then you shouldn't be hurting on this job. Remember on small cost materials the mark up is very high ( normally around 100% ).

 

[jimmyglen]

Time and Material can be a good way for someone to hire a contractor (and most people dont like it) if the electrician is good

if you are good you can more money bidding your work

but if these guys are good pay and its steady work - I would keep it

 

[480sparky]

One of the downsides to T&M is that as you gain experience, use time-saving tools and get more productive...you're paid less unless you raise your hourly rate to match your increased productivity.

Dave

That's why you :
1. increase your hourly rate
2. do more than one job in a day.

1. I often ask people, who ask about my hourly rate, "Would you rather pay me $100 and hour and have the job done in two hours, or pay someone else $50 an hour for 8 hours?"
2. At least once a week, I do more than one service call a day. I've managed to do 5 in one day.

 

[emahler]

That's why you :
1. increase your hourly rate
2. do more than one job in a day.

1. I often ask people, who ask about my hourly rate, "Would you rather pay me $100 and hour and have the job done in two hours, or pay someone else $50 an hour for 8 hours?"
2. At least once a week, I do more than one service call a day. I've managed to do 5 in one day.

Holy crap. Number two, the way you have written it, might as well go work hourly for someone else.

 

[480sparky]

Holy crap. Number two, the way you have written it, might as well go work hourly for someone else.

7 - 8 ; Replace toggle switch at 1234 Main
8 - 10 ; Install ceiling fan at 4321 Jones
10 - 11:30 ; Locate & repair short circuit at 9876 Oak
12 - 2 ; Install dimmers at 6789 Pine
2 - 3:30 ; Install A/C circuit at 2468 Court

 

[emahler]

7 - 8 ; Replace toggle switch at 1234 Main
8 - 10 ; Install ceiling fan at 4321 Jones
10 - 11:30 ; Locate & repair short circuit at 9876 Oak
12 - 2 ; Install dimmers at 6789 Pine
2 - 3:30 ; Install A/C circuit at 2468 Court

i prefer:

8-12 : install ceiling fan, install fan speed control, install gfci's in kitchen, bath and exterior at 1234 main st

12-1:lunch

1-4 : take your pick...

anyone who runs serious resi service will tell you this:

windshield time is an Overhead thief. You want to limit your drive time as much as possible. When we ran resi service, our target was no more than 3 call/day/truck...increase the revenue of each ticket, decrease the number of jobs needed (lowering the costs of acquiring jobs), decrease the amount of drive time (lowering the costs of downtime) and be able to spend the time giving the customer exceptional service.

Your day is the description of a typical small EC that is flying by the seat of his pants with no plan, nor direction.

It's an incredibly inefficient, and less profitable, way to operate. You'd be better off just doing projects, or really running service. But, good luck with it...

btw: with that schedule, you might as well go work hourly for someone else...at least you will get paid for your downtime at your actual rate

 

[480sparky]

So you're saying if you can't get a job that takes at least 4-5 hours, you don't want it? Fine with me. I charge windshield time anyway.

And I don't appreciate the implication that I have to plan or no direction. I DO have a plan.... take care of a lot of small jobs on the same day, so I don't spend half a day driving to one job, then half the day driving to the next one, then half a day driving to the third one. It's called LOGISTICS. Try it sometime.

Plus, this is not an everyday schedule. Maybe ONCE A YEAR can I do this.

And with this type of schedule, I do very well, thank you. It's called filling a niche market.

 

[emahler]

So you're saying if you can't get a job that takes at least 4-5 hours, you don't want it? Fine with me. I charge windshield time anyway.

And I don't appreciate the implication that I have to plan or no direction. I DO have a plan.... take care of a lot of small jobs on the same day, so I don't spend half a day driving to one job, then half the day driving to the next one, then half a day driving to the third one. It's called LOGISTICS. Try it sometime.

Plus, this is not an everyday schedule. Maybe ONCE A YEAR can I do this.

And with this type of schedule, I do very well, thank you. It's called filling a niche market.

i'm saying we take those 1 hour calls and turn them into 4 hour calls...

we would take those $175 service calls and turn them into $600 calls, with happier customers. My overhead was the same for a $175/call as it was for the $600 call. Cost me the same to mobilize a tech, the same to answer the phone call, the same to get that customer to call me...i just made more profit.

running around 8 hrs a day, doing 5 calls and billing $100/hr t&m is a losing proposition.

you might as well go take a job working for someone else. at least then you only have 1 boss.

like i said, good luck.

 

[solaeros]

Emahler;

Kinda sounds like you're "REAMING" the customer. In my area you would get lynched coming in and cuddling up to the customer in order to work out an additional $400.00 per call.

 

[emahler]

Emahler;

Kinda sounds like you're "REAMING" the customer. In my area you would get lynched coming in and cuddling up to the customer in order to work out an additional $400.00 per call.

Not at all. But your comment is indicitive of the problems with our industry.

Seriously, what is wrong with saying "mrs. Jones, I noticed that you have ceiling fans in all your bedrooms, but 1 switch controls both the fan and light. And you have to use the pull chain to operate them separately. We can install remote kits that allow to control them seapately from anywhere in the room. We can install them today for $125/ea. Would you like us to do that?"

Tell me how that is remotely close to "REAMING"?

I'm sorry our industry is full of self hating, bass ackwards, simpletons who are afraid of anything remotely associated with financial success.

Do you think for one second that any of your customers care whether you can afford to take your family out for a steak dinner? Or if you can only afford to feed them macaroni and cheese?

It's not about taking advantage of them. It's about selling them your knowledge, experience and expertise. Not just selling them your time and soul.

Carry on.

 

[iwire]

I'm sorry our industry is full of self hating, bass ackwards, simpletons who are afraid of anything remotely associated with financial success.

So there you go, you either do it emahler's way or your a simpleton. :roll:

 

[solaeros]

I think some one woke up on the wrong side of the bed.

Nothing is wrong with upselling or trying to minimize overhead expenses. But your post your gave "me at least" the impression that you want your guys "milking" a 1 hour job for 4 hours. "It's all in how you phrase things." And what defines success in your mind? Net income, Material belongings, Happiness? I have a great Net, own properties in Hawaii, and along the Henry's Fork river near Yellowstone Nat. Park. But that's all pretty meaningless if your not Happy. Not trying to brag but I believe you're assuming too much of others you really don't know

 

[ike5547]

We can install remote kits that allow to control them seapately from anywhere in the room. We can install them today for $125/ea. Would you like us to do that?"

And when 'Mrs. Jones' says no thank you, what then? Screen her calls and black list her?

 

[ike5547]

So there you go, you either do it emahler's way or your a simpleton. :roll:

His customers (simpletons?) seem to good to be true. I work with alot of intelligent and successful people that are not so easy to manipulate as he has described. If I screened them all out I wouldn't have much left.

I suspect a little exaggeration is taking place.

 

[emahler]

So there you go, you either do it emahler's way or your a simpleton. :roll:

Bob, I wish I could take credit for this being my way. But there are large organizations out there who have already proved this true.

 

[480sparky]

i'm saying we take those 1 hour calls and turn them into 4 hour calls.......

So you would be more than happy to overcharge your customer because you have no other job to go to? I call that a scam.

If it takes half an hour to do an oil change on your car, do you happily pay $200 for it becuase the mechanic took his time, goofed off, smoked half a pack, then said it took him 4 hours?

If I can charge $100 an hour, PLUS MY TRIP CHARGES AND MILEAGE, I do pretty good for a day.

That, and the fact that when I walk away from the (small) job, the customer has three things: 1. EXACTLY what they wanted, and no hard-sell for any more. Folks appreciate that more thany anything. 2. A proper job, professionally done. 3. Several business cards. I always give them four or five. I know perfectly well that they will recommend me to others.

But what do I know? I'm flying by the seat of my pants and have no plan or direction....