List price or T+M

[ike5547]

So you would be more than happy to overcharge your customer because you have no other job to go to?

He probably does have other and much larger jobs to go to. That could be why he can afford to be so selective on the smaller ones.

When I have larger ongoing projects I tend to become a little more selective myself.

 

[480sparky]

He probably does have other and much larger jobs to go to. That could be why he can afford to be so selective on the smaller ones.

When I have larger ongoing projects I tend to become a little more selective myself.

I have larger jobs as well. But I also get calls for the smaller jobs as well.

I would rather take care of those people than to turn them down. Who knows where that small job will lead to? I once did a very small job as we have been discussing. Turns out she works for an international shipping company, and I ended up with a nice national account out of the deal.

It's just I don't drop everything I'm doing to go do those small jobs. I group them together and do them all in one day. The same way you get in your car and go to the bank, dry cleaners, post office, grocery store, then pick up the kids at the pool on the way home.

If we all were huge ECs doing malls, school, hospitals and the like, and didn't do small jobs, who would take care of the homeowners of the country?

 

[emahler]

Holy christmas.

Solerno's- good for you. Did you make money running a resi/lt commercial service company? Or doing primarily projects w/ a little service to your existing customers and a few referrals.

Ike - if you think using your knowledge to make your customers lives more comfortable, is manipulating them, than you prove my theory.

It's not about milking, or reaming, or manipulating. We did resi flat rate. That means, the quicker we got the task done, the more we made.

However, do your customers all read EC mag? EC&M? Do they keep up with all the new items in the industry? No. But you do, or at least should.

If all your selling them is your time, then stop wondering why they hire someone cheaper.
It's entirely too easy to blame losing a job to someone being cheaper. Its much more difficult to look in the mirror and say "I didn't give them any reason to believe that I'm worth more. I couldn't sell myself"

 

[emahler]

So you would be more than happy to overcharge your customer because you have no other job to go to? I call that a scam.

If it takes half an hour to do an oil change on your car, do you happily pay $200 for it becuase the mechanic took his time, goofed off, smoked half a pack, then said it took him 4 hours?

If I can charge $100 an hour, PLUS MY TRIP CHARGES AND MILEAGE, I do pretty good for a day.

That, and the fact that when I walk away from the (small) job, the customer has three things: 1. EXACTLY what they wanted, and no hard-sell for any more. Folks appreciate that more thany anything. 2. A proper job, professionally done. 3. Several business cards. I always give them four or five. I know perfectly well that they will recommend me to others.

But what do I know? I'm flying by the seat of my pants and have no plan or direction....

Did you feel the wind when the point flew right over your head?

 

[480sparky]

Did you feel the wind when the point flew right over your head?

I couldn't. I'm too busy flying.

 

[iwire]

As long as your up front with your pricing, which emahler is, I don't think it is possible to over charge.

Do some Google shopping, you can find fancy pens for $5,000, sneakers for $2,000 are those companies scamming or reaming anyone?

IMO no, some people like to pay more for what they think is better.


The only thing I was giving emahler a hard time about is resorting to calling people names that do not agree with him.

 

[emahler]

480.and Ike. Take solice that you are not alone.

When we did resi service, that's all we did. We didn't have larger jobs going. We just focused on resi service. We had more calls than we could handle most days. But our belief was that the customer we were at, was all that mattered. Now we were running 5-7 trucks 10 hrs a day 6 days a week. So we could handle some schedule differences.

These days we rarely touch these calls anymore. Just not what we are set up for.

Again, think logically. How is me telling a customer about something I think they might like, giving them all the facts (including price) and letting them make an informed decision, anything but the right way to do it?

Remember, we weren't T&M. We couldn't dog it.

 

[emahler]

As long as your up front with your pricing, which emahler is, I don't think it is possible to over charge.

Do some Google shopping, you can find fancy pens for $5,000, sneakers for $2,000 are those companies scamming or reaming anyone?

IMO no, some people like to pay more for what they think is better.


The only thing I was giving emahler a hard time about is resorting to calling people names that do not agree with him.

They weren't directed. They are industry wide. And the sad fact is they are accurate.

This board represents less than what, 5%, of our industry? And some of the better members of our industry at that?

 

[480sparky]

480.and Ike. Take solice that you are not alone.

When we did resi service, that's all we did. We didn't have larger jobs going. We just focused on resi service. We had more calls than we could handle most days. But our belief was that the customer we were at, was all that mattered. Now we were running 5-7 trucks 10 hrs a day 6 days a week. So we could handle some schedule differences.

These days we rarely touch these calls anymore. Just not what we are set up for.

Again, think logically. How is me telling a customer about something I think they might like, giving them all the facts (including price) and letting them make an informed decision, anything but the right way to do it?

Remember, we weren't T&M. We couldn't dog it.

In other words, I'm filling the void that you left. As I said before, I'm filling a niche. You just outgrew it. Fine with me. Just let me do it.....

.

 

[iwire]

They weren't directed. They are industry wide. And the sad fact is they are accurate.

It's not a fact, it is your opinion.

This board represents less than what, 5%, of our industry? And some of the better members of our industry at that?

I would say the electricians that have become more businessmen then electricians do not hang out at code forums, they are off selling.

Many ECs are excellent electricians but less then stellar businessmen, that does not mean they are 'self hating, bass ackwards, simpletons who are afraid of anything remotely associated with financial success.'

It just means their priorities in life are not the same as yours.

 

[ike5547]

They weren't directed. They are industry wide. And the sad fact is they are accurate.

This board represents less than what, 5%, of our industry? And some of the better members of our industry at that?

If I were to tell you my former employer retired at the age of 56 worth tens of millions of dollars and did not follow 'your' business plan would that surprise you? Would you even credit it?

 

[emahler]

If I were to tell you my former employer retired at the age of 56 worth tens of millions of dollars and did not follow 'your' business plan would that surprise you? Would you even credit it?

I would ask 2 things.

1) What market was he in?
And
2) What year did he retire?

And I would give him all the credit in the world. He beat the long odds. Good for him.

Question #3 - how close are you to retiring at 56, and being worth that kind of money?

 

[emahler]

It's not a fact, it is your opinion.



I would say the electricians that have become more businessmen then electricians do not hang out at code forums, they are off selling.

Many ECs are excellent electricians but less then stellar businessmen, that does not mean they are 'self hating, bass ackwards, simpletons who are afraid of anything remotely associated with financial success.'

It just means their priorities in life are not the same as yours.

Yet, they'll debate against proven systems and track records? Citing exceptions as the rule?

And bob, when multiple sources can be cited, it ceases being opinion.

 

[ike5547]

I would ask 2 things.

1) What market was he in?
And
2) What year did he retire?

And I would give him all the credit in the world. He beat the long odds. Good for him.

Question #3 - how close are you to retiring at 56, and being worth that kind of money?

1. San Francisco

2. 2003. The same year I started contracting.

3. Ain't gonna happen. My point is that some individuals are better at this (making money) than others and there is no exclusive business model that works.

He still pays 100% of mine and others health insurance and retirement for those who did so in his service.

 

[ike5547]

Yet, they'll debate against proven systems and track records?

No one is debating your track record. The debate concerns your assumption that yours is the only way to be successful.

 

[ike5547]

I assume that there are some who have tried a flat rate system and failed. We just aren't hearing about those. Just saying it may not be the magic bullet it's being portrayed as and it may not work in every market.

 

[iwire]

And bob, when multiple sources can be cited, it ceases being opinion.

Forget it, there is no outside reference to back your view that electricians do not do it like you choose to are 'simpletons or self hating'.

You where simply being rude for no reason other then ego stroking.

 

[mivey]

Forget it, there is no outside reference to back your view that electricians do not do it like you choose to are 'simpletons or self hating'.

You where simply being rude for no reason other then ego stroking.

But he has multiple sources (quote from another thread):roll: :

I've had the opportunity to meet and work with hundreds of contractors from NYC to California and everywhere in between.

I've had the opportunity to meet some of the greatest business minds in our industry, and just learn from others.

From posts I've read, arguing with emahler is useless. He is completely self-confident and convinced he has the only viable solution and those that are successful by other methods are the exceptions to the rule. I do agree with his stand that many ECs (and other businesses for that matter) don't include all of their costs in their rates.

I'm glad he is able to be successful with his method. I'm also glad others are successful with their methods (and yes emahler, they are successful).

 

[480sparky]

Sorry, I just couldn't resist!

 

[mivey]

Sorry, I just couldn't resist!

That's funny.:grin: Now I'm going to have to look up this cadpoint translation stuff as this is the second time I've seen it in a post.