List price or T+M

[emahler]

Ike - I meant what market segment of the industry.

Bob - I personally get tired of people in this industry (not just here) complaining about the same things year after year, but doing the same thing year after year. A sense of frustration sets in. What's the definition of crazy?

480 - that was funny. Can I save it and use it?

It's not even my way. Google Frank Blau. But if you have a method with a 70% success rate vs. 1 with a 40% success rate, well you get the idea.

Now personally, I don't have a horse in this race anymore. I just hate seeing plumbers and hvac contractors brag about taking month long vacations, and ec's brag about working retarded hours to make a living.

 

[ike5547]

Ike - I meant what market segment of the industry.

It really wasn't confined to a particular segment really. We did almost everything. All over the San Francisco Bay Area but mostly within the city. New construction residential and commercial, remodel, service work, supermarkets, malls, chain stores, etc...

You're right about him being an exception to the rule, but on a personal level. He was totally relentless. Worked long, long hours, planned and organized exceptionally well. Also, he didn't make that amount of money by sticking his profits in a piggy bank but by investing it in real estate and lots of it.

My point is that making money in contracting isn't restricted to a single system. IMO, It comes down to the innate nature and abilities of the person running the system. If you don't have certain prerequisites no system will work for you.

In my opinion, even a flat rate system has to be implemented by the right kind of person. That aside, I no of no flat rate electricians in S.F. so I'm not sure it would work out here very well.

 

[480sparky]

Ike - I meant what market segment of the industry.

Bob - I personally get tired of people in this industry (not just here) complaining about the same things year after year, but doing the same thing year after year. A sense of frustration sets in. What's the definition of crazy?

480 - that was funny. Can I save it and use it?

It's not even my way. Google Frank Blau. But if you have a method with a 70% success rate vs. 1 with a 40% success rate, well you get the idea.

Now personally, I don't have a horse in this race anymore. I just hate seeing plumbers and hvac contractors brag about taking month long vacations, and ec's brag about working retarded hours to make a living.

Goat head. I mean, Go ahead! :grin:

 

[JES2727]

When I started contracting several years ago I was a bass-ackwards simpleton, there's no doubt about it. My business is still evolving in a half-fast kind of way but I pay attention to every bit of information emahler is willing to share. It's good stuff.

 

[emahler]

Ike,

I know a lot of guys who do resi service @ $70/hr/man and make a nice profit every year. The fact is, they would make a nicer profit if they didn't do that service work, all it does is cost them money. But since they don't break it out, they really never know.

When I talk about this stuff, its as a true service company. Not an installation company that does service on the side.
I also know guys like your former boss. Many of them made their money in contracting 20 years ago. Now they make their money on the investments they made 20 years ago, not their contracting business.

 

[ike5547]

I pay attention to every bit of information emahler is willing to share. It's good stuff.

I agree. His presentation could use some work, however, and some of his assumptions are over generalized.

 

[ike5547]

I apologize. My comment in #46 seems kind of mean and unnecessary.

 

[iwire]

It's good stuff.

It is good stuff, but it ain't Gospel.

 

[emahler]

Don't worry Ike, you are right. However, since I am not running a seminar and charging for this information, I really don't care.

How far off are most of my assumptions anyway? Almost never 180degrees. Usually like 10 or 20 degrees.

480 - is it too late to change the title of that book to "Electrical Service Contracting". That would be more accurate. Thanks a lot Goathead (I'm assuming that's a term of endearment in the fields of I
Iowa)

 

[emahler]

It is good stuff, but it ain't Gospel.

Actually Bob, for resi/lt commercial service it really is gospel. And I don't take credit for it

 

[jmsbrush]

Mr Emahler. I don't think you are wrong for trying to upsell to a customer. I agree with you on this and I have only been a contractor for 10 months now and I get what you're saying! I just started flat rating I hope it goes well for me.

 

[iwire]

Actually Bob, for resi/lt commercial service it really is gospel.

Damn, someone with a bigger head then my own. :grin:

I have learned a lot for your posts and you have even changed my views on some of it but there is nothing in this world with a one size fits all answer.

Again, your definition of success is not everyones idea of success and it is not the 'correct' definition of success.

 

[peter d]

Again, your definition of success is not everyones idea of success and it is not the 'correct' definition of success.

I certainly agree with that, but to work slavish hours as an EC for marginal returns is not something that I aspire to do in life. For the amount of money, time, investment and risk it takes to be successful in this business, I would want to be richly rewarded for it. I think that's all Erik is "preaching" against is EC's who sell themselves short when there is no good reason for them to do so.

 

[emahler]

Damn, someone with a bigger head then my own. :grin:

I have learned a lot for your posts and you have even changed my views on some of it but there is nothing in this world with a one size fits all answer.

Again, your definition of success is not everyones idea of success and it is not the 'correct' definition of success.

bob, I agree. But I'm talking to contractor w/ a couple of employees whose looking to build his company. I'm not talking to the guy who wants to work by himself, or the guy who wants to go after large installs and new construction. I've stated that many times before

 

[aline]

There are many ways to get to your destination.

You can walk.
You can run.
You can ride a bike.
You can drive a car.
You can go by boat.
You can take a train.
You can fly.

I guess the important thing is to determine where you want to go and when you want to get there. Then it's just a matter of choosing the right method to get you to your destination at the desired time. Some methods will get you their faster than others. Choose the wrong method and you may not get there at all.

 

[adamants]

do it

do it

In my opinion, even a flat rate system has to be implemented by the right kind of person. That aside, I no of no flat rate electricians in S.F. so I'm not sure it would work out here very well.

go for it, i am changing over at the moment and it is working out awesome! no regrets.

 

[iwire]

but to work slavish hours as an EC for marginal returns is not something that I aspire to do in life.

Pete when did I even come close to suggesting that? :-?


For one I thought this thread was about owners, not the workers. For another thing what I meant was this.

Some owners aspire to run ever expanding companies with no limit to their dreams. These folks take more pride in the business they have built then the work their employees do. That is great, the economy needs those folks. :smile:

Another group of owners is happy working for themselves, with no one else or just a few guys. They don't want a large company, they take more pride in the work then in the business. That is also great, there is room for them as well.:smile:

And of course there are owners that fall somewhere in between.

I am in another group, I do not have the drive, ability or desire to run a business. It's just not what I want out of life, I work to live, not live to work.


Brian John seems to be a guy that lives to work and if that is what he likes then thats great, although it may have taken a toll on his health.

 

[emahler]

Pete when did I even come close to suggesting that? :-?


For one I thought this thread was about owners, not the workers. For another thing what I meant was this.

Some owners aspire to run ever expanding companies with no limit to their dreams. These folks take more pride in the business they have built then the work their employees do. That is great, the economy needs those folks. :smile:

Another group of owners is happy working for themselves, with no one else or just a few guys. They don't want a large company, they take more pride in the work then in the business. That is also great, there is room for them as well.:smile:

And of course there are owners that fall somewhere in between.

I am in another group, I do not have the drive, ability or desire to run a business. It's just not what I want out of life, I work to live, not live to work.


Brian John seems to be a guy that lives to work and if that is what he likes then thats great, although it may have taken a toll on his health.

Bob, i agree....there are some business basics that everyone should have to know...i.e P&L, breakeven, etc...but beyond that, the problem on this site is that too many of this group:

Another group of owners is happy working for themselves, with no one else or just a few guys. They don't want a large company, they take more pride in the work then in the business. That is also great, there is room for them as well.:smile:

make pretend that their methods will work for this group

Some owners aspire to run ever expanding companies with no limit to their dreams. These folks take more pride in the business they have built then the work their employees do. That is great, the economy needs those folks. :smile:

which wouldn't be a problem, if many guys in group 2 weren't young and just learning the business. they have aspirations to grow, but get faulty advice from someone who has no intention of growing. Hence, me being so adamant about presenting the other side.

and as i've stated numerous times, i'm speaking to a specific target audience.

 

[iwire]

make pretend that their methods will work for this group

I don't have to pretend, I am sure those methods can work. :smile:

But check this out.

I think many people who go in business like to do things their own way.

That is way they stopped working for the man.

which wouldn't be a problem, if many guys in group 2 weren't young and just learning the business. they have aspirations to grow, but get faulty advice from someone who has no intention of growing. Hence, me being so adamant about presenting the other side.

I hear you but I am not one that believes in hand holding, if I was to make the move to start a business it would be my responsibility to do the research and learn the ropes.

You do realize that some of young guys trying to run and grow a business have to go out of business. There is only so much room and just because someone has the desire to run a shop does not mean they will every have the skills to do so successfully flat rate or not.

and as i've stated numerous times, i'm speaking to a specific target audience.

It is not how it comes across.

To me it comes across as an arrogant, (a subject I know about :wink: ) big headed guy that thinks he knows how every EC should run his operation. Not trying to start crap here just letting you know how I see your posts and I don't run a business.


Again let me say it clearly

You have a lot of good information and I hope you keep presenting it.


Could you just not call people names who don't want to follow your suggestions? :smile:

 

[emahler]

I don't have to pretend, I am sure those methods can work. :smile:

But check this out.

I think many people who go in business like to do things their own way.

That is way they stopped working for the man.



I hear you but I am not one that believes in hand holding, if I was to make the move to start a business it would be my responsibility to do the research and learn the ropes.

You do realize that some of young guys trying to run and grow a business have to go out of business. There is only so much room and just because someone has the desire to run a shop does not mean they will every have the skills to do so successfully flat rate or not.





It is not how it comes across.

To me it comes across as an arrogant, (a subject I know about :wink: ) big headed guy that thinks he knows how every EC should run his operation. Not trying to start crap here just letting you know how I see your posts and I don't run a business.


Again let me say it clearly

You have a lot of good information and I hope you keep presenting it.


Could you just not call people names who don't want to follow your suggestions? :smile:

i could, but it's not as much fun

as i've also stated, if this were a seminar and I was charging money, i'd care about presentation.

I think it's even worse when Group 2's employees try to give advice to Group 1 guys...

but no, this is all for resi/lt commercial service for the small contractor looking to grow...

doesn't apply to new construction, large commercial installs, industrial, etc.