LOAD CALCULATIONS FOR 120/240, 3 PHASE DELTA SERVICE???

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gpedens

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Re: LOAD CALCULATIONS FOR 120/240, 3 PHASE DELTA SERVICE???

c10, I was beginning to think no one answered your question. But looks like rbalex and the niffty picture gave you the same answer as I came up with. Being in the utility industry I use a lot of open delta for buck/boost to get 600 down to 480. I have never heard the terms kicker and lighter. And charlie came through for you very well on calculating load. I was just going to say the simple answer that 3 phase power (VA not watts) is square root of 3 times phase to phase voltage times amps. Also bear in mind as most of the replies said that there are requirements that the equipment be tested/listed for open delta, corner grounded delta, buck boost, etc. Under certain fault conditions your single pole 120 rated breaker will get 208 to interrupt. Also you 120 volt equipment may not have been UL tested for 208 safe leakage current. In a 3 phase delta system you can tie one leg to ground with no problem. That second one usually lets out a lot of smoke. Its less risky to use a wye system but it is also less risky to use a full or over sized neutral instead of earth as we do. Anyway it sounds like your apartment complex is near an industrial complex. Talk with your utility folks about your load needs.
 

charlie

Senior Member
Location
Indianapolis
Re: LOAD CALCULATIONS FOR 120/240, 3 PHASE DELTA SERVICE???

I have never heard the terms kicker and lighter.
The term has been around for many years but it depends on the area in which you work as to the slang that is used. The "lighter" is the lighting transformer because it serves the lighting load (120 volt from A & C phases to the center point ground). The kicker (kickers if it is a full delta) is the transformer that kicks up the high phase or wild leg.

This is no different that calling "parallel cable", "lash cable". This is cable with a bare neutral and two phase conductors that are lashed together in a parallel configuration. The neutral is used as a messenger to support the assembly. :D
 

gpedens

Member
Re: LOAD CALCULATIONS FOR 120/240, 3 PHASE DELTA SERVICE???

Thanks Charlie. I never heard the term stinger either. But from rbalex diagram it is a kicker also. I have spent the last 30+ years making electric power. Most of the transformers I deal with are measured in hundreds of tons and thousands of KVA. As you say the open delta with a center tapped xfrm for lights and the other non tapped xfmr to give the third phase has been around for years. It is a more economical way to provide a combination of 3 phase and single phase back in the days we called the electric bill a light bill or juice bill. The main concern here is if you use another center tapped xfmr for your kicker a shade tree sparky might be tempted to use it for a lighter to get more juice for his new shop. It will turn into a smoker or flasher when it is powered back up. One leg of a delta to ground is fine, that second one is like firing off a stick of dynamite.
 

ryan_618

Senior Member
Re: LOAD CALCULATIONS FOR 120/240, 3 PHASE DELTA SERVICE???

Originally posted by charlie:
Additionally, you would need a full voltage rated single pole circuit breaker.
Hi Charlie. I'm assuming that you are talking about 240.85 here.

I've seen straight 240-V 2-pole breakers which, as you know, are to be used on a high leg system, but I wasn't aware that they have similiar breakers in the single pole variety. Do they have single pole 208 or 240 volt rated breaker (designed to interface in a high leg panel), or would you have to use a 2-pole straight rated for this?

Edited for typo

[ June 11, 2004, 12:54 PM: Message edited by: ryan_618 ]
 

charlie

Senior Member
Location
Indianapolis
Re: LOAD CALCULATIONS FOR 120/240, 3 PHASE DELTA SERVICE???

I slipped a cog when I said that. If you were to use a breaker on the B phase and another phase or phases, it would have to be full voltage rated. However, if you were to use a single pole breaker, it would have to be rated for the circuit voltage only. :eek:
 
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