Load testing alarm batteries.

[mdshunk]

Yeah, but they are he ones who can't handle the beeping, remember? Sorry, no sympathy, they can't have it both ways.

Sure they can. If I can test them (now, I know I can), they can have it both ways. Over the years, I've tended to specialize in stuff everyone else said probably shouldn't be done. I'm not really asking for your sympathy for a few reasons. One, I don't need any (I'm a big boy now). Two, I know you're a grumpy old man, and I probably wouldn't get it anyhow. I really wanted to know about a tester, and now I know about a few. I'm going to test them during annual PM. You know, us young bucks come up with new ideas to smoke you old guys every once in a while. Embrace change, Hal. I am your future. :wink:

 

[peter d]

Sure they can. If I can test them (now, I know I can), they can have it both ways. Over the years, I've tended to specialize in stuff everyone else said probably shouldn't be done. I'm not really asking for your sympathy for a few reasons. One, I don't need any (I'm a big boy now). Two, I know you're a grumpy old man, and I probably wouldn't get it anyhow. I really wanted to know about a tester, and now I know about a few. I'm going to test them during annual PM. You know, us young bucks come up with new ideas to smoke you old guys every once in a while. Embrace change, Hal. I am your future. :wink:

Gee whiz Marc, if you get this worked up over some crummy alarm batteries, how would you react to something really important?

 

[mdshunk]

Gee whiz Marc, if you get this worked up over some crummy alarm batteries, how would you react to something really important?

There's a couple people that can push my buttons, and the old guy is one of them. I have a few basic principles, and one of them is that everything is test-able. It just seriously rubs me the wrong way to condemn something on a guess.

 

[peter d]

It just seriously rubs me the wrong way to condemn something on a guess.

Yeah, I hear you..although no doubt you are aware that it happens all the time in this biz. I admire that you are bucking that trend even though you are in the distinct minority.

From this thread I am now going to coin a new expression. "Hey, don't chuck that battery...make sure you Shunk it first."

 

[Security101]

I'm with "Shunking the batteries" as I have seen them go 5-7 years and still produce acceptable results!

There is no good reason to just regularly replace unless it's at the 3-5 year mark as recommended by the battery and alarm manufacturers.

It still depends a lot on how often they are allowed to drop below their threshold and are recharged. Some locations will only rarely see this kind of abuse (like locations with backup generation) and those will last longer than the 3-5 time frame.

Jim

 

[hbiss]

I'm not really asking for your sympathy...

Nope, I didn't mean for you.:smile: I have no sympathy for customers that waste my time with stupid issues. I agree that those batteries will usually last 5 years or more but sometimes you get a clunker. If they don't want to take a chance on the silly beeping that they should know how to silence, then I'm not going to kill myself over it.

-Hal

 

[mdshunk]

I have no sympathy for customers that waste my time with stupid issues.

It's those same people who pay my bills.

 

[hbiss]

And they are going to pay one way or the other.

-Hal

 

[MichaelGP3]

Another vote in favor of Marc's approach.....

Another vote in favor of Marc's approach.....

..... I have a few basic principles, and one of them is that everything is test-able. It just seriously rubs me the wrong way to condemn something on a guess.

Myself, I hate recycling something that still has use left in it, especially when you think of what people went through to get the lead out of the mines and smelted into battery plates. I have some experience with the ACT & the ACT II testers, and have used it with 12 volt batteries from 7 to 65 amp hour, although with relatively few different brands. I've not used the Elk product, but that's the one I intend to purchase soon. Proper load testing takes time. I'd made up a table for my own use back in the 1980's for testing with a 300 watt incandescent lamp. You would meter the voltage of the battery when the lamp was first connected, My table showed how many minutes the lamp should be left connected (based on the AH rating) prior to testing for voltage. This was in series with a battery saver module from Radionics that would open if it saw less than 10.5 volts. I don't have this handy; if I can't find it I'll have to re-create it. I've been lazy, but I would like to perform this test as a confirmation of the results I'm seeing on the ACT testers. Anyone else tried this?

 

[FlyFish]

So that's up to 4 batteries at an average price of $25.00

Nov. 3 to 14 ADI has a sale on UltraTech 4 and 7 Ah at $7.99 and $9.99. I usually wait for these sales, stock up and schedule with my customers.

 

[Weaver Road]

Another test method, time consuming, but righteous.

Another test method, time consuming, but righteous.

If design criteria for the system (battery calcs) are available, we usually find that the panels are well over battery-ed (spl?). Any new systems will be submitted with the calcs.

Now the test:
For fire alarms, the criteria is pretty tough so we just simulate a true power loss. Shut off the ocp, silence the trouble, wait four hours for buildings with generators or 24 hours if no gen. Then run the alarm audibles for 5 minutes if a standard bell/sounder or fifteen minutes for a voice-type alarm.

Now, obviously, this takes some co-ordination with the occupants. Usually we line up with the annual test of the system so the noise is limited to that event. We also have to set up monitoring for the time that the batteries may go down.

I realize this is not the most stremlined approach, but it is a true test and I can go home feeling sure of my results.

Mike

 

[mdshunk]

I realize this is not the most stremlined approach, but it is a true test and I can go home feeling sure of my results.

That's just strange. They publish the current draw of the notification appliances for a reason.

 

[Security101]

For fire alarms, the criteria is pretty tough so we just simulate a true power loss. Shut off the ocp, silence the trouble, wait four hours for buildings with generators or 24 hours if no gen.

It would require us to return (or gosh - stay there) while under test for 24 hrs, nope - not gonna happen... (it would have to be a pretty big install to warrant that technique)

Then to truly test like that, you'd need to fire up the generator too - right?

I think I'll just keep testing them with the ACT and use the rest of the time for through inspection!:wink:

Jim

 

[dbuckley]

That one pictured is xxx bucks, and I don't really see xxx bucks there. I might have to pay that, but it seems to me that there ought to be something like this for closer to xxx/4.

Yeah, thats what all the customers say...

 

[mdshunk]

Yeah, thats what all the customers say...

If they all say that, you failed to build value in your product.

 

[Weaver Road]

That's just strange. They publish the current draw of the notification appliances for a reason.

I know it seems strange at first. We resisted the idea initially, but through some heavy consulting with electrical engineers, fire alarm code experts, etc. we found that the battery performance variables (age, voltage drop over time of draw-down, etc.) meant we were not getting accurate answers as to whether the batteries would actually perform.

We also have the luxury, I guess, of being on the enforcement side, so our "billing" needs are different than for an EC. Setting up the 24 hour jobs is sometimes difficult, but most systems in our area report A/C Fail as well as low battery, so many buildings can go unoccupied at night as long as someone is on call to run in and throw the breaker if the low battery alarm comes in. Some buildings will throw the breaker 4 hours before we arrive, coordinated with the test team. Then we witness the system running on battery, hit the alarm to test it (5 or 15 min), the test crew verifys the function of the notifications devices, they then restore A/C and the test team goes to work: device by device.

Please also keep in mind we most often use this where the design calcs are not available to do the math on battery size, so we don't even know if the batteries are big enough when they come out of the box.

For Jim (Security 101) (I don't know how to quote two posts in one answer, sorry.) No, you don't have to run the generator, the code requires 4 hours of battery if the alarm has generator back-up, just in case the gen doesn't start. So, leave the generator alone, run the alarm for four hours on battery.

Mike

 

[mdshunk]

For many buildings, the potential for the lack of a fire alarm system during the overnight, should the batteries fail while unsupervised, would require someone to hire a security firm for fire watch.

 

[MAK]

Marc have you found a suitable battery load tester yet? I am curious to see what model you select.

 

[gsmiz]

Nope, but I should be.:grin: Downstairs is 25+ screaming 7 to 9 year olds bobbing for apples and other Halloween Party fun.





See above.

On a Fire Alarm Sysytem, NFPA 72 Section 10 says that batteries must be replaced within 5 years of manufacture or more frequent as needed. It is important to note that this doesn't mean 5 years from date of installation which is how the NFPA 72 use to read.

 

[efish]

ACT Meters LTD makes a battery tester that loads the battery while testing it it is called the Gold -IBT. Company Phone 1-877-712-2278