Location For Disconnects

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I dont believe a "non fused" disconnect is in need of maintenance or examination, thus not likely to be opened while energized. Fuses are commonly changed while the circuit is still energized. By HVAC techs and not electricians also. That is why fused is totally different than non fused.


Shall we discuss transformer clearance? :-D
 
I would have to ask the same question as Chris. I seem to be missing this "exception" in the code language as well. And I'm speaking from the code not my personal opinion of how it should be interpreted.

I think Don is right on. There needs to be a change made to the language in 110.26(a) so that this thread will end.....

That little word "likely" in 110.26(a) leaves a LOT of room for opinion to be inserted.
 
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Sparky,
I dont believe a "non fused" disconnect is in need of maintenance or examination, thus not likely to be opened while energized.
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So you don't expect that the service tech will check for voltage at the disconnect?
Don
 
don_resqcapt19 said:
Charlie,

I think that you are few code cycles behind. The section has been 110.26(A) since the 1999 code.
Don
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right you are! Old habits die hard sorry, for showng my age.

Charlie
 
don_resqcapt19 said:
Sparky,

So you don't expect that the service tech will check for voltage at the disconnect?
Don
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Why can't the service tech check voltage at the HVAC unit? Requiring clearence in front of a switch or non-fused disconnect is the silliest thing I've seen on this forum. The code does NOT require the 30"x36" clearence. If it was required, then every switch and receptacle would be required to have the same clearences. If it was required, then where would you put switches and receptacles? An example how a receptacle wouldn't pass your inspection is the dishwasher, range, refrigerator.....etc... The list is endless. I HIGHLY recommend you call the NFPA and ask for their interpretation, I think you will agree.
 
McDowellb said:
Why can't the service tech check voltage at the HVAC unit? Requiring clearence in front of a switch or non-fused disconnect is the silliest thing I've seen on this forum. The code does NOT require the 30"x36" clearence. If it was required, then every switch and receptacle would be required to have the same clearences. If it was required, then where would you put switches and receptacles? An example how a receptacle wouldn't pass your inspection is the dishwasher, range, refrigerator.....etc... The list is endless. I HIGHLY recommend you call the NFPA and ask for their interpretation, I think you will agree.
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I do. Every receptacle can be tested for voltage, polarity, ground, etc., while energized.
 
Its part of my job to check every receptacle ,switch and light fixture.And they all are EQUIPMENT.You might not like it but 110.26 is not removed by any other code number.So its now up to the inspector as to how he applies this.If my AC went down i think my first inspection would be breaker then the pull out disc and check for my 240.Both are faster than removing that cover.
 
Why can't the service tech check voltage at the HVAC unit? Requiring clearence in front of a switch or non-fused disconnect is the silliest thing I've seen on this forum. The code does NOT require the 30"x36" clearence. If it was required, then every switch and receptacle would be required to have the same clearences. If it was required, then where would you put switches and receptacles?
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Yes he can take the unit apart and check for voltage, but the most cost effective way is to open the disconnect. That way if it is a branch circuit problem he doesn't even have to open the unit. Yes the code rule is silly and wrong, but the words are very clear. You can say what ever you want but the words as currently written require the working clearance for all electrical equipment that "is likely to be" worked on hot. Yes it is impossible to comply with the code as written. The problem here is that CMP 1 refuses to accept any changes in the wording that would solve the problem.
Don
 
McDowellb said:
Why can't the service tech check voltage at the HVAC unit?
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This is something that would have to be asked of the service tech. There is no way for one person to know what another person is thinking

McDowellb said:
Requiring clearence in front of a switch or non-fused disconnect is the silliest thing I've seen on this forum.
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This is because you haven?t been around long. Do a search of my post and you will see a lot of silly remarks.

McDowellb said:
The code does NOT require the 30"x36" clearence.
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Yes it does in 110.26. Now I have given you a code reference that show where the requirement can be found. If you know of a section that relieves this rule please post that section.

McDowellb said:
If it was required, then every switch and receptacle would be required to have the same clearences. If it was required, then where would you put switches and receptacles?
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I useally install them as outlined in 210 as this is the article that mandates their installation and placement.

McDowellb said:
An example how a receptacle wouldn't pass your inspection is the dishwasher, range, refrigerator.....etc... The list is endless.
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Well let?s address these appliances that you have posted.
Dishwasher??422.16(B)(2)
Range?????422.33(B)
Refrigerator?.422.33(A). The refrigerator would be one receptacle that would give the 30 by 36 inch clearance. Pull the refrigerator out and there you would have it.

McDowellb said:
I HIGHLY recommend you call the NFPA and ask for their interpretation, I think you will agree.
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Well when I called them they sent me a big red book and said the answer could be found inside the book. Sure enough after a little reading I found it.

I hope this helps you just a little because that is what I am here for.
 
I called the NFPA they gave me that info.
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First any phone or written opinions from the NFPA other than a formal interpretation is no more valid that any opinion posted on this site. Second, if they told you that, then they haven't read the words in the code book. It is clear to anyone who knows how to read what the code section says. That may not be what they intended it to say, but the intent does not change what the section says.
Don
 
don_resqcapt19 said:
First any phone or written opinions from the NFPA other than a formal interpretation is no more valid that any opinion posted on this site. Second, if they told you that, then they haven't read the words in the code book. It is clear to anyone who knows how to read what the code section says. That may not be what they intended it to say, but the intent does not change what the section says.
Don
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I'm sooo done with this thread. I NEVER get written up for it. So you are wrong.
 
don_resqcapt19 said:
First any phone or written opinions from the NFPA other than a formal interpretation is no more valid that any opinion posted on this site. Second, if they told you that, then they haven't read the words in the code book. It is clear to anyone who knows how to read what the code section says. That may not be what they intended it to say, but the intent does not change what the section says.
Don
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I belive the NFPA has read the words in the code book since they put them there. I don't think you understand what the mean. You're over thinking such a simple section and putting more into what is there.
 
marc,
I belive the NFPA has read the words in the code book since they put them there.
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I think that who ever you talked to needs to go back and read the code section keeping the following rule in mind.
It doesn’t say what you think it says, nor what you remember it to have said, nor what you were told that it says, and certainly not what you want it to say, and if by chance you are its author, it doesn’t say what you intended it to say. Then what does it say? It says what it says. So if you want to know what it says, stop trying to remember what it says, and don’t ask anyone else. Go back and read it, and pay attention as though you were reading it for the first time.

Copyright 2006, Charles E. Beck, P.E., Seattle WA.
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Don
 
McDowellb said:


"I'm sooo done with this thread. I NEVER get written up for it. So you are wrong".


RickG writes:
So, what about the tech that opens the disco to check for voltage on the load side of the switch on a hot humid August afternoon, observes what might be a loose connection on a screw terminal. Is he going to try to find the breaker, open it, go back to the disco, tighten the screw, then go back to turn on the breaker? Doubt it He or she will likely lean over the top of the condenser to tighten the energized screw, possibly the hand will slip off the screwdriver handle & on to the shank of the driver while he is laying on the grounded metalic cover of the condenser.
I interperet 110.26 to cover fused & non fused discos, and you WOULD be red tagged in my towns. If you do not like my decision, take it to the state, this issue has gone there before.
For the life of me I do not know why this is such a big deal, and why anyone should think the these discos do not require work space. A little communication, a cardboard sign at the discos if they are installed before the condensers, indicating the requirements for a NEC compliant installation. And pay attention to what goes on on your jobs.
I wll not get into the issue of countertop switches & recepts as I agree with Don that this is a poorly written article & needs to be sorted out.
I have seen installations where the disco is behind the condenser & the condenser is so close to the disco it can't be opened for examination even when not energized. Saw another one where the condenser was already in place & the electrician must have been a contortionist to get the disco in a 14" deep space behind the condenser, when the area next to the condenser & behind the wall was wide open.
Rick
 
rickg said:
McDowellb said:


"I'm sooo done with this thread. I NEVER get written up for it. So you are wrong".


RickG writes:
So, what about the tech that opens the disco to check for voltage on the load side of the switch on a hot humid August afternoon, observes what might be a loose connection on a screw terminal. Is he going to try to find the breaker, open it, go back to the disco, tighten the screw, then go back to turn on the breaker? Doubt it He or she will likely lean over the top of the condenser to tighten the energized screw, possibly the hand will slip off the screwdriver handle & on to the shank of the driver while he is laying on the grounded metalic cover of the condenser.
I interperet 110.26 to cover fused & non fused discos, and you WOULD be red tagged in my towns. If you do not like my decision, take it to the state, this issue has gone there before.
For the life of me I do not know why this is such a big deal, and why anyone should think the these discos do not require work space. A little communication, a cardboard sign at the discos if they are installed before the condensers, indicating the requirements for a NEC compliant installation. And pay attention to what goes on on your jobs.
I wll not get into the issue of countertop switches & recepts as I agree with Don that this is a poorly written article & needs to be sorted out.
I have seen installations where the disco is behind the condenser & the condenser is so close to the disco it can't be opened for examination even when not energized. Saw another one where the condenser was already in place & the electrician must have been a contortionist to get the disco in a 14" deep space behind the condenser, when the area next to the condenser & behind the wall was wide open.
Rick
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When something is not working would'nt you check voltage at the equipment. I would. This never happens.
 
Anyone quoting 440.14. Plase look up the deffinition of READLY ACCESSABLE. Note the part about "Climbing over". A new 14 seer and up 3.5 ton unit is pretty darn tall!!!!
 
Cavie said:
Anyone quoting 440.14. Plase look up the deffinition of READLY ACCESSABLE. Note the part about "Climbing over". A new 14 seer and up 3.5 ton unit is pretty darn tall!!!!
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AHHHH..... your WRRRRONGGGG. Just tring to correct you. What if the disconnect is located inside of the equipment. Ohhhhh thats not READILY ACCESSIBLE
 
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