Lol..."shut up and do what i say you apprentice."

[Fulthrotl]

I give respect where respect is deserved. This guy is a prick. He thinks everything he says is golden. Hes not some nice boss you can be buddy buddy with. He was trying to teach us this because he wanted to justify to himself why he thought the inspector was wrong in asking for how he came up with the neutral rating. I even told him the formula for unbalanced neutral = sq rt (a^2 + b^2 etc etc and he looked at me like i was an idiot

But i must admit, it is nice to see everyones posts about the flipside/how i could have acted. I do appreciate the responses.

your golden haired prick is invaluable. without him, you'd have no way to fully appreciate
god's gift to the electron when he shows up to show you how to do something.

that being said, a large part of what your job description entails is putting up with all manner
of things, and people.

i've worked with a wide variety of folks. some i consider smart, some not so much. consider
you are working on a construction site, and not at the RAND corporation with Rhodes scholars.

there is a lot to be said in learning from those who've been doing this a long time. everyone
teaches, and teaches all the time.

most of the folks who sign your paycheck on the opposite side you do, will not do things to
meet your expectations. you won't appreciate why until you start signing paychecks on the
other side.

most of what i've learned about this dilemma you confront can be summed up:

cream rises to the top. so does scum. if i can't discern the difference,
without pointing it out to everyone who will listen, that is my problem, not theirs.

i am not the general manager of the universe.

some folks live's serve largely as a warning to others. usually unheeded.

darwin was an optimist.

you can't fix stupid.

and, with a not to george carlin....

"consider how stupid the average person is, and then, statistically speaking,
remember that half the people are stupider than that."

 

[mbrooke]

Agreed. I think lack of respect bothers me more than anything else. I respect my boss however that frequently is a one way street. That said, I voice my objections/concerns/suggestions/questions when needed, especially if I think he is about to screw up, or I might be about to screw up.

mbrooke is right: not one of us knows it all. The flip side is often true too: your "green" helper may just have a better idea or solution than you do.

davidbananas, I see where you are coming. Venting your spleen can be cathartic

Listening and understanding is key imo, even when you disagree with the other side. This is not to take sides, but have both parties reach a peaceful standpoint. Remember, unity moves mountains, even when no one sees eye to eye.

 

[Besoeker]

No one knows everything, which is fine.

The begining of understanding is the acknoledgement of ignorance.

 

[ggunn]

your golden haired prick is invaluable.

Thanks. Now I 'll never be able to get rid of that image.

 

[Fulthrotl]

Thanks. Now I 'll never be able to get rid of that image.

oops. sorry. poor choice of words, especially in an election year..... :dunce:

 

[jusme123]

So ive heard so many times "dont question your journeyman or master giving you direction." "You dont get paid to think." blah blah blah.

Well im pretty sure the 65 year old been-wiring-my-whole-life master electrician in my company everyone looks up to is an idiot.

He was giving us apprentices a lesson today at work about unbalanced neutral loads while we stood looking at the 3 phase 208 panel in the restaurant we are wiring. It wouldnt be so bad if he was actually giving the right info to the others that dont know better.

65 year old idiot "whats the unbalanced neutral load if this very bottom single pole breaker is showing 18 amps with no other breakers turned on?"

Apprentices "18 amps."

Idiot "right, so whats the unbalanced neutral load if this breaker right across from it is also showing 18 amps?"

Apprentices "0!" (Ive stopped talking at this point)

Idiot "Right! So as long as you do a little work and split up your loads you can size your neutral wire pretty small!"


Ok so.....

2 breakers across from each other are on the same phase in a 3 phase panel. So they dont cancel each other out, by any means.

Second, its 3 phase... so even if they were different phases, 18 amps on A and 18 amps on B leaves an unbalanced neutral load of 18 not 0.

Aaaand did I mention this panel is right next to the transformer we installed? Unbalanced neutral load has nothing to do with sizing the neutral in a SDS...Pretty sure this guy has no idea how neutrals work or how to size them.

Thanks for letting me rant. :rant:

:happyno:not.always.true:happyno:

 

[romex jockey]

nope....

~RJ~

 

[mbrooke]

The begining of understanding is the acknoledgement of ignorance.

Oh yes! :happyyes: Can't tell you how many times I thought I knew most of something and it turns out I never even knew the basics. As of late shaded pole motors.

 

[mbrooke]

nope....

~RJ~

Ahhh, good one

 

[kwired]

Did they make a three phase "Pushmatic"?

 

[iwire]

Did they make a three phase "Pushmatic"?

Three phase panels yes, I don't think they made three phase branch breakers though.

 

[kwired]

Three phase panels yes, I don't think they made three phase branch breakers though.

Never seen such an animal, curious how the bus arrangement worked out for that.

ADD: looks like they must have made three pole breakers

 

[iwire]

Never seen such an animal, curious how the bus arrangement worked out for that.

It was weird, I used to service a store with three phase bulldog switch gear. The breakers for three phase loads looked like typical GE TED style breakers.

But there where also a number of pushmatic panelboards in the switchgear supplied three phase but if I recall no way a three phase branch breaker could be installed.

Here is a picture I took of the gear, but not inside.

http://www.electriciantalk.com/f29/ite-pushmatic-9397/#post131333

 

[romex jockey]

I do still have a shred of sympathy for apprentices , even though i want to flog them most of the time.......~RJ~

 

[mbrooke]

I do still have a shred of sympathy for apprentices , even though i want to flog them most of the time.......~RJ~

They get my full respect, often leads to less flogging urges. there is such a thing as a self fulfilling prophecy...

 

[AKElectrician]

Had guys who would say incorrect things on purpose just to test electricians for their own enjoyment, like how many ID10T Cables could be bundled with CAT5, PVC needs bonded with what size green Weed line, if a ice cube relay isn't working put it in the freezer for a hour, why do transformers hum? (dont know the words to the song), light switches are supposed to go on when pushed down not up, beer doesn't freeze in your freezer if you put it upside down, only pull with a file don't push etc etc etc. Just to see if you can think for yourself, and not be a sheep following the herd.

 

[rt66electric]

:happyyes:



So it's an inspection job, the guy already got nailed, you know the correct answer and so the problem is........????

This 65 yr old has likely been in this line of work for a half century and many older guys can do circles around apps - as Big John alluded to earlier, maybe not so good on theory/calculations but great at the "nuts and bolts" aspect of installations.

Discount this incident but pay attention to other things he is telling you- for ex. things you could pick up from him about quickly running material could be invaluable- as everybody knows, the grunt work is all about speed. You might get irritated when one of your suggestions gets ignored or ridiculed, but remember this: a lot these guys had the same idea when they were an app and they know your way wont be faster.

ReMEMBER...........

He has forgotten more than you know>>>>>>