make up grounds for rough inspections?? Why??

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growler said:
I certainly agree that the sheetrockers should learn to use those roto zips.

Many of us don't work with the same GC or homeowners very often so it's hard to train them.

I normally use deep boxes and push the insulated wires in first and grounds last.

Many people won't believe this but good sheetrockers can measure and cut out the box opening before hanging the sheetrock. It does require they be smart enough to read a tape measure and have a T-square. But we are not living in the age of craftsmanship.
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I have done it both ways, roto-zip tool is fastest and with some care still pretty accurate. It is when you get in a hurry that you make more mistakes either way.

Most drywall hangers are paid by the job, the faster they work the more jobs they get done, the more they may earn - if they were to be penalized for mistakes they would slow down enough to do a better job. They don't mess around finding scraps to fit here and there - if they don't find one rather quickly it gets cut out of a new sheet. Many leave a huge mess of scraps behind after they are done, quite a few large enough they probably could have been used somewhere instead of cutting out of new stock.
 
kwired said:
They don't mess around finding scraps to fit here and there - if they don't find one rather quickly it gets cut out of a new sheet. Many leave a huge mess of scraps behind after they are done, quite a few large enough they probably could have been used somewhere instead of cutting out of new stock.
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I don't think there is a buy-back on sheetrock saved on a job and probably not worth moving to another job ( things like shingles get moved to other jobs). Once the rock is on the job it's going in the dumpster even if saved.

I have seen a lot of conduit go into the trash because the company doesn't want to be bothered with putting it in stock as inventory and paying an advalorum tax.
 
It isn't just the ground wires that get nicked by rotozips during sheetrock jobs. The fact that they are legal to use in this fashion amazes me , considering all the laws on the books nowadays to protect the public from every imaginable threat to safety. It seems that the house gets built quickly and paid for is more important than saving the pending occupants lives is.
And no , afci circuit breakers are no help in mitigating at all, they simply don't prevent a glowing red hot point from happening when a conductor is nicked and is no longer the proper gauge to handle the current imposed. The nicked parts are not always easy to notice and deal with, sometimes they are even hidden inside the insulation of the wire, but still nicked from the speed and force of the bit.

Money talks , safety walks.
 
macmikeman said:
The nicked parts are not always easy to notice and deal with, sometimes they are even hidden inside the insulation of the wire, but still nicked from the speed and force of the bit.

Money talks , safety walks.
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That's what all the spray paint on the wires is for. If you can see the nicks they won't hurt you.
 
jumper said:
Why ya gotta use some fancy new tangled term and make me go look it up?:D
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If your county had an advalorem tax you would already know about it. When you get a business license they send out forms wanting an inventory of stock and tools used for said business. The tax is based on a milage rate which is not a set rate every year. They say it's for schools and other civic expenses.

I'm sure that wherever you live and work they have a way of getting your money, they may call it by a different name. The purpose of government is to collect taxes.
 
growler said:
If your county had an advalorem tax you would already know about it. When you get a business license they send out forms wanting an inventory of stock and tools used for said business. The tax is based on a milage rate which is not a set rate every year. They say it's for schools and other civic expenses.

I'm sure that wherever you live and work they have a way of getting your money, they may call it by a different name. The purpose of government is to collect taxes.
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My impression of the governmental process is:

1. Spend the money
2. Collect the taxes
3. Figure if you can afford it

Funny how the government does everything backwards. :roll:
 
I hate when the dry wall/ blue boarders cut the wires as well.
My two cents:
98 percent of the time I use the plastic deep boxes make up all the splices push, cram'em in as far as I can hope for the best. I found leaving the romex with the sheathing did not help. With Coax and cat#5&6 I ES loop it above or below with a little bit in the box to grab latter.
 
growler said:
If your county had an advalorem tax you would already know about it. When you get a business license they send out forms wanting an inventory of stock and tools used for said business. The tax is based on a milage rate which is not a set rate every year. They say it's for schools and other civic expenses.

I'm sure that wherever you live and work they have a way of getting your money, they may call it by a different name. The purpose of government is to collect taxes.
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I am not an EC.
 
Knuckle Dragger said:
.............With Coax and cat#5&6 I ES loop it above or below with a little bit in the box to grab latter.
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Low voltage I just run straight in the box with no loops, and right back out to a 6 or 8' tail that's lightly stapled to the stud. That way, it's all in the back. At trim, reach in and pull the tail back into the box.
 
480sparky said:
Low voltage I just run straight in the box with no loops, and right back out to a 6 or 8' tail that's lightly stapled to the stud. That way, it's all in the back. At trim, reach in and pull the tail back into the box.
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First time I did that (hotel job) many of my cables wound up caught up in the insulation and smashed between it and the drywall. Cant have open or missing KOs either where you have rated walls.

Knuckle Dragger said:
With Coax and cat#5&6 I ES loop it above or below with a little bit in the box to grab latter.
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If I'm using 1g boxes, I take some painters tape and tape the loop of cable to the back of the box. 2g with a 1g ring, I'm gtg. Those steel plates are good too tho and something the gopher can do on a slow day.

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As for making up grounds at rough-in, it's been that way here as long as I've known. Gotta make 'em up sometime, and at rough in is a lot easier than at final and have to unscrew devices. As far as being REQUIRED to make them up at rough-in, I dunno, perhaps it's in international building code.
 
I've always preferred to make up my boxes at rough in. It's a good way to verify that you haven't missed any wires. Plus when that one subcontractor shows up and turns every single breaker on (happens a ridiculous amount) at least there's an effective ground path. We pigtail all of our hots and neutrals at receptacles so every box is hot.

Tacking the low voltage wire up outside the box works with batt insulation, but with spray in...good f***ing luck! I have had issues where I literally ripped some cat 6 in half trying to free it from a chunk of closed cell.

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk
 
kwired said:
You can lead a horse to water but can't make him drink....


How many of you that must make up grounds at rough in actually have inspector look at every single box?

If they don't maybe you should tell them you don't feel you are being served properly by them, so what if they have a full schedule for the day, you want every detail looked at, right? And at same time it will give them an opportunity to find things they might have missed otherwise:blink:
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What I've noticed that WA state inspectors do is glance into 3 or 4 boxes near the middle of the house. Have also had an inspector simply say 'you need to makeup your grounds' before even looking in any box.
 
growler said:
I don't think there is a buy-back on sheetrock saved on a job and probably not worth moving to another job ( things like shingles get moved to other jobs). Once the rock is on the job it's going in the dumpster even if saved.

I have seen a lot of conduit go into the trash because the company doesn't want to be bothered with putting it in stock as inventory and paying an advalorum tax.
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I don't disagree, but a lot of "green" people probably would have a fit if they only knew what happens
 
jsmalone1 said:
Yes, use this device and just say NO to the inspector...
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Seems like this device is easy to remove for anything the inspector wishes to see inside of. And this is a much easier time to see these things than after devices are installed. This is NOT the battle I want to win with an inspector considering which battles he might pick to win later.
 
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