Manufactured Building

[ceb58]

Was called today to come look at a mfg. building, double wide modular unit, that is going to be used as a church. The building was made in Ga. and set up in S.C., then torn apart and moved to N.C. and set back up, now it has been torn apart and moved again and set back up. Having nightmares about it already.

The preacher wants me to look at it and give a price. He stated that the unit was wired with romex (NM) and it was hanging underneath the unit. He stated that years ago he worked for a EC while in school and it had been a long time and he knew there had been many code changes but he is really questioning the use of NM.

I know that when the unit was built is was wired to HUD standards and factory inspected. But now I think all bets are off on the wiring.
I need some advice on which code would apply. Art.545 is very vague on wiring methods. Art. 550 has 550.4 (A) which in part states " It shall meet all other applicable requirements of this article". With that said would 550.15 (H) now come into play?

 

[jxofaltrds]

Was called today to come look at a mfg. building, double wide modular unit, that is going to be used as a church. The building was made in Ga. and set up in S.C., then torn apart and moved to N.C. and set back up, now it has been torn apart and moved again and set back up. Having nightmares about it already.

The preacher wants me to look at it and give a price. He stated that the unit was wired with romex (NM) and it was hanging underneath the unit. He stated that years ago he worked for a EC while in school and it had been a long time and he knew there had been many code changes but he is really questioning the use of NM.

I know that when the unit was built is was wired to HUD standards and factory inspected. But now I think all bets are off on the wiring.
I need some advice on which code would apply. Art.545 is very vague on wiring methods. Art. 550 has 550.4 (A) which in part states " It shall meet all other applicable requirements of this article". With that said would 550.15 (H) now come into play?

You are correct. All bets are off.

550. does not apply. Read the definition in 550.2 Manufactured Home.

 

[ceb58]

You are correct. All bets are off.

550. does not apply. Read the definition in 550.2 Manufactured Home.

Read 550.4 (A) That is what is throwing me

 

[Jim W in Tampa]

I would not give a price untill i met with the local inspectors and firechief. Could be a lot of code issues just based on its use. Not sure if i would trust a preacher that keeps moving LOL. They are not built with intension of moving them around. Usually they set up once by the company that sold it. Be very careful on this contract to spell out what your doing for x $$$ and that any other work required by codes are extra. Sounds like a job i would rather pass on if i was busy. The romex itself raises red flags depending on number of people.

 

[jxofaltrds]

Read 550.4 (A) That is what is throwing me

And you just threw me too. I had to look at it multiple times.

It says Mobile Home not Manufactured Home.

Which is it?

 

[jetlag]

Was called today to come look at a mfg. building, double wide modular unit, that is going to be used as a church. The building was made in Ga. and set up in S.C., then torn apart and moved to N.C. and set back up, now it has been torn apart and moved again and set back up. Having nightmares about it already.

The preacher wants me to look at it and give a price. He stated that the unit was wired with romex (NM) and it was hanging underneath the unit. He stated that years ago he worked for a EC while in school and it had been a long time and he knew there had been many code changes but he is really questioning the use of NM.

I know that when the unit was built is was wired to HUD standards and factory inspected. But now I think all bets are off on the wiring.
I need some advice on which code would apply. Art.545 is very vague on wiring methods. Art. 550 has 550.4 (A) which in part states " It shall meet all other applicable requirements of this article". With that said would 550.15 (H) now come into play?

That home was almost for sure built 12 miles from me at horton homes, The wires hanging are not part of the original wiring , That is hidden over the framing and over the insulation, People run all kinds of new circuits underneath a home after it is in place . To wire to code any thing added underneath by owner must be fastened to frame in rigid metal conduit. Sometimes rigid non metalic is allowed if it follows the frame closely . The wiring might be much better than it looks once you determine where the added circuits are going ,that should have been in conduit . These homes are are all wired with mn but it is concealed well . The only difference in a modular home and a mobile home is the mobile has removable axles and the modular has to be set on a foundation with a crane. The modular might conform to building code a little better but not that much .

 

[cadpoint]

Who's pulling the permit? I'd be sure to check all the following aspects out.

As stated in a thread the other night, "assembly" by NEC codes is greater per populatious than local building
codes which is at half that.

There seems to be a very large loop hole in the local building codes that one can get a shell building built
(or in your case moved) by design build methods with the underlying use not stated but well understood.

I'd surely run it all by local AHJ, as said. Hopefully the only blessing you will need is the go-ahead on your bid.

 

[jetlag]

Who's pulling the permit? I'd be sure to check all the following aspects out.

As stated in a thread the other night, "assembly" by NEC codes is greater per populatious than local building
codes which is at half that.

There seems to be a very large loop hole in the local building codes that one can get a shell building built
(or in your case moved) by design build methods with the underlying use not stated but well understood.

I'd surely run it all by local AHJ, as said. Hopefully the only blessing you will need is the go-ahead on your bid.

The company moving the home has to pull a permit to move and set up the home , the permit includes new electric service , plumbing connection and heat and air connection . Some places require some one with license sign off on each but some places never question the mover doing it himself , but it does get inspected.

 

[jxofaltrds]

Forget the NEC for a minute. The 'use' will probably dictated how it is to be wired.

 

[ceb58]

I would not give a price untill i met with the local inspectors and firechief. Could be a lot of code issues just based on its use. Not sure if i would trust a preacher that keeps moving LOL. They are not built with intension of moving them around. Usually they set up once by the company that sold it. Be very careful on this contract to spell out what your doing for x $$$ and that any other work required by codes are extra. Sounds like a job i would rather pass on if i was busy. The romex itself raises red flags depending on number of people.

:grin: The preacher doesn't keep moving. They bought this building to set up as a satellite church for Hispanics. I dont think the size would accommodate the 100+ occupancy ruling.

And you just threw me too. I had to look at it multiple times.

It says Mobile Home not Manufactured Home.

Which is it?

They way he described it it sounds more like a modular building that would be use like mobile class rooms or an office.

 

[Jim W in Tampa]

Forget the NEC for a minute. The 'use' will probably dictated how it is to be wired.

That is my thinking too. Big differance in it being used as an office and it being used as a church. Might start with what the mfgr says it was designed for. Local AHJ is the starting point.
Are we talking 10 people or maybe 50
Guess you might want to look at it first and then call the AHJ
Something about it tells me to run from this one.

 

[qcroanoke]

Was called today to come look at a mfg. building, double wide modular unit, that is going to be used as a church. The building was made in Ga. and set up in S.C., then torn apart and moved to N.C. and set back up, now it has been torn apart and moved again and set back up. Having nightmares about it already.

I would look to see if it has a North Carolina state label on it first. It should have a South Carolina label on it too. South Carolina now requires each module to be labeled not sure how long that has been around though.
If you run up on the right inspector that knows about state labels and this building is not labeled for N.C. someone could be in for a lot of grief.
By law that building should have been labeled for North Carolina when it was moved the first time.
Some states will not allow a building that was labeled for another state to be moved into
their state without being re-inspected by a third party and labeled by the 3rd party for their state. We're talking being bought up to code too.
If it's not labeled I'd walk.

 

[jetlag]

That is my thinking too. Big differance in it being used as an office and it being used as a church. Might start with what the mfgr says it was designed for. Local AHJ is the starting point.
Are we talking 10 people or maybe 50
Guess you might want to look at it first and then call the AHJ
Something about it tells me to run from this one.

One thing for sure they will have to bump up the a/c and install more bath area probably , gut the walls , and there comes the structual problems .:grin::grin:

 

[ceb58]

update

update

I would look to see if it has a North Carolina state label on it first. It should have a South Carolina label on it too. South Carolina now requires each module to be labeled not sure how long that has been around though.
If you run up on the right inspector that knows about state labels and this building is not labeled for N.C. someone could be in for a lot of grief.
By law that building should have been labeled for North Carolina when it was moved the first time.
Some states will not allow a building that was labeled for another state to be moved into
their state without being re-inspected by a third party and labeled by the 3rd party for their state. We're talking being bought up to code too.
If it's not labeled I'd walk.

It dose have a NC label on the panel. compliant with 1984 code.

One thing for sure they will have to bump up the a/c and install more bath area probably , gut the walls , and there comes the structual problems .:grin::grin:

OK, looked at it today. It was built as a modular office and not a home.It was originally wired with romex. The walls have been striped of the sheet rock. They told me the purpose of this building is nursery/ classrooms/ fellowship hall with no cooking provisions. But the county is requiring 5/8 fire-co sheet rock that is why the walls are striped. The floor plan is the same with no removal of walls. They have added a wall in what used to be an office to make 2 rest rooms and using a smaller office to make a handicapped accessible restroom. They plan on installing a new gas pack HVAC system.

After talking with them and looking at the job IF I could rewire it with romex and giving them a GOOD break on the price I came up with $6000.00. That was way over what they thought it would be. The preacher was nice and honest about the whole project and told me at this time they could not afford the cost even if it was half the price.

 

[lakee911]

No one wants to work for free, but if they're non profit, maybe you can pro bono and write off on taxes?

 

[qcroanoke]

No one wants to work for free, but if they're non profit, maybe you can pro bono and write off on taxes?

That's true,but, even if you get paid for doing it or do it for free you and your insurance are still on the hook for anything that may go wrong. And in a church they will make changes later on.
Man, I sound like some others on this board now.........

 

[ceb58]

No one wants to work for free, but if they're non profit, maybe you can pro bono and write off on taxes?

That's true,but, even if you get paid for doing it or do it for free you and your insurance are still on the hook for anything that may go wrong. And in a church they will make changes later on.
Man, I sound like some others on this board now.........

I am looking into seeing if the supply house will donate the wire for the project. If they will I will offer to do the work if they cover the labor and I will donate the other material for a write off.

Mike, you are correct as far as the insurance is concerned but the insurance cost the same if I am working or watching TV. As far as changes the scope will be spelled out from the start and I have no problem with letting them know where the good will ends.

 

[Jim W in Tampa]

With drywall off i think everything changes. Very likely will need brought up to code. They now need to adjust every box for depth. Nothing wrong in trying to help a church out for a serious cut in price. I did one for free labor. As a business move run from this but if your able and willing to help a church you might ask them for some free help.

 

[cadpoint]

There's way's to bank on God, I don't think this is the One of them.

The client can move it, and pull permits for it, but then they can't pay for any services to it. Frankly the job scares me,
and I don't carry any papers!

Good Luck!

 

[qcroanoke]

I am looking into seeing if the supply house will donate the wire for the project. If they will I will offer to do the work if they cover the labor and I will donate the other material for a write off.

Mike, you are correct as far as the insurance is concerned but the insurance cost the same if I am working or watching TV. As far as changes the scope will be spelled out from the start and I have no problem with letting them know where the good will ends.

If they agree, Go for it!