Masonary Posts - Wiring Method??

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allenwayne said:
Couldn`t you just drop some UF though the open center and terminate in either a hand hole nearby or a bell box mounted on the bottom sleeving the switch leg/ power and the UF in PVC,A bell box would be the ticket if there is to be a photo cell for control.
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That is how it is often done but can you show me where the code allows that?
 
If it's a 16"(?) square masonary column with a 8" square opening down the center, won't it have some sort of top cover?
Usually, I will see a flanged metal (copper, aluminum or painted galvanize) top that fits over the column, or else the masonary will be closed at the top.
I would usually (flush) mount a box in the top cover and sit the light on that, or else have the mason build a box into the top.
Am I not picturing this right?
steve
 
iwire said:
That is how it is often done but can you show me where the code allows that?
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334.30(B) Unsupported Cables. Nonmetallic-sheathed cable shall be permitted to be unsupported where the cable:
(1) Is fished between access points through concealed spaces in finished buildings or structures and supporting is impracticable.

Impracticable = impossible. If the cable is accessible in the masonry structure, it must be supported properly.
 
iwire said:
That is how it is often done but can you show me where the code allows that?
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340.10 would allow it to be used as a branch circuit.Since 334.10 (4) refers us back to NM 334, that allows us to use 334.30 (B) for unsupported/ fished through the opening.And as well all know there has to be an accessible J box. IE:The bell box and the pvc sleeve protects from physical damage.
 
rlMutch said:
334.30(B) Unsupported Cables.
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That section does not eliminate the need for the cable to be secured to what it terminates to.

Yes I can snake NM down a wall to a box but the box must still secure the NM.

300.15 requires a box.

300.12 requires Mechanical continuity of raceways and cables between enclosures.

300.18 requires a complete run of the raceway before conductors are installed.
 
allenwayne said:
340.10 would allow it to be used as a branch circuit.Since 334.10 (4) refers us back to NM 334, that allows us to use 334.30 (B) for unsupported/ fished through the opening.
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The UF still must be supported to the enclosure it terminates in.
 
iwire said:
The UF still must be supported to the enclosure it terminates in.
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I concur, but if you fished nm down the open area and secured it to the bell box and a box on the top all requirements would be met.Fished secured accessible termination .:)
 
iwire said:
That section does not eliminate the need for the cable to be secured to what it terminates to.

Yes I can snake NM down a wall to a box but the box must still secure the NM.

300.15 requires a box.

300.12 requires Mechanical continuity of raceways and cables between enclosures.

300.18 requires a complete run of the raceway before conductors are installed.
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Agreed...sort of.
300.15(B) applies to luminaires (according to Article 100). An integral "wiring compartment" in a listed luminaire is allowed in lieu of a box. A listed luminaire must provide space so that their conductors and connecting devices can be properly installed (410.10) As part of the listing, the manufacturer must specify: "methods for connection to a recognized wiring system, suitability of splice enclosure and means for inspecting splices" (White Book).
So...IMO, If a box is installed on the block structure, and a UF cable (attached to the box) is run from the box to a listed post-mount luminaire, cable is supported within the structure (if possible), and the cable is attached to the listed luminaire or fitting per the manufacturer's intructions, you're done.
 
allenwayne said:
and a box on the top all requirements would be met.
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Allen, that is what I have been saying all along in this thread.

A box or some sort of enclosure is needed at the top of the pillar.

Now some fixtures may have an integral wiring compartment that can be used but if all the fixture has is a canopy it must be used with a box.
 
iwire said:
Allen, that is what I have been saying all along in this thread.

A box or some sort of enclosure is needed at the top of the pillar.

Now some fixtures may have an integral wiring compartment that can be used but if all the fixture has is a canopy it must be used with a box.
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Bob this is where the manufacturers and the UL must get on the same page.Look at your sold everyday at the big O #20 store or the big blue #48 store posi light.

All you have is a post that secures a post light and the termination is done within the post, There is nothing in the NEC that restricts the size of the canopy.So a canopy can be 6 ft+ tall.There are restrictions that give us a min size (cu. in.) for a box there are restrictions that tell us the distance we have to secure conductors when they enter a box.But as far as restrictions that tell us how tall a canopy for a post light can be ?????? I can`t find one.
 
I think that Bob is saying that no matter how big the canopy, there has to be a box on the other side of it.

Mark
 
busman said:
I think that Bob is saying that no matter how big the canopy, there has to be a box on the other side of it.

Mark
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I agree with that statement.

This is not such a hard item to figure. A column/post, whatever you try to call it, is constructed at the site. The wiring method needs to follow the section numbers that Bob posted earlier, including the box/enclosure at the top of the post where the wiring method transitions to the lighting fixture. Remember that most canopies from lighting manufacturers are not stamped as the manufacturer is relieving themselves from as much liability as possible.

The canopy itself is not a box/enclosure, the manufactures do provide some listed fixtures that include boxes/enclosures; but those will be listed as such and the wording will be in the paperwork included with the fixture.
 
busman said:
I found some photos of the little pedestal bases at the following link (towards the bottom). Sorry I don't know how to post a photo.

http://lighting4sale.com/store/odpostac.html

Mark
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Mark-- these bases usually have a 1/2" or 3/4" threaded knockout for your conduit or UF cable. You can splice the wire in the base of the fixture since the fixture will cover the base. Here is a picture
9014_12sm.jpg
 
A post light does not have a box. The pipe itself is the JB. The base above seals the entry and the splice is protected inside the fixture stem just like a post light.
 
Dennis Alwon said:
A post light does not have a box. The pipe itself is the JB. The base above seals the entry and the splice is protected inside the fixture stem just like a post light.
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I follow that train of thought completely, but think about it a post light with free standing conductors with no max distance from the point of attachment/secured/clamped.The weight of the conductors would place a strain on the connectors.The dead weight would be tremendous, but the nec doesn`t have an article(or does it) that deals with a post light conductors terminations.

I did a paper mill turned into a mini storage complex years ago where we reused the existing conduit for the panels.When I took out the wire wedges the conductors just flew 13 stories to the loading dock.Where I collected them and later scraped them out.(The boss was asked what to do with them.His answer was whatever you want to do with them.Back in 1974 CU was going for around $1.00/lb.When I came to work with a brand new Mercury Capri(the ones made in Europe at the time)His eyes got really wide and asked me how could I afford that.I told him I paid cash for it from the CU he told me to take away.:)

All that aside, getting back to the issue at hand.So if we have a post light no matter how tall as long as the entrance conductors are secured within the required distance from the J box the rest is a moot subject??????
 
The exception that allowed the post to be a raceway 410.15(b)(1) was limited to posts 8 ft tall so the 13 stories would not apply.

Mark
 
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