melted receptacle mystery

Status
Not open for further replies.
hbiss said:
Yeah exactly, it comes down to dollars and cents and when there is a choice the crap will always win out because we can make more money. What I'm saying is ban the crap and eliminate the choice. If the owner or GC has to pay more too bad. As it is we have the added expense of providing AFCI which does nothing. At least this will add some degree of safety.

-Hal
Click to expand...

I am adamantly opposed to that for one simple reason. I'm completely against any rules in the NEC that only fatten the manufacturers bottom line. That also opens up a total can of worms. Once they start making rules like that there is no end to it. They'll come up with stuff l like requiring that you must replace circuit breakers every 10 years. Or a total rewire after 30 years....etc. I don't trust the NEC in this regard.
 
peter d said:
Well duh, that's why I'm against the whole concept of including manufacturers in the code making process.
Click to expand...
I think we need a wide variety of people on the CMP's and unfortunately too many from any one area of the industry has potential for swaying things in their favor, what is more important is keeping a balance of background of individuals involved. Still not a simple task of selecting who goes where, it makes no sense for an expert at hazardous locations to be on a CMP that covers swimming pools regardless of how they are involved they may be a manufacturer rep, designer, installer...bottom line is they are better at hazardous locations than they are at swimming pools.

jeff48356 said:
What about using better-grade receptacles in places where things are likely to be plugged/unplugged more frequently? Kitchen countertops (small appliances, etc.), bathrooms (hair dryers, curling irons, etc.), and hallways (vacuum cleaners). Also, have a new NEC requirement (or state requirement) where either the screw terminals or compression lugs must be used. No back-stab connections allowed anymore. These things will eliminate 99% of problems caused by loose connections at receptacles (either with plugs or the wiring itself).
Click to expand...

If they are listed for the application they are acceptable, even if you feel they are an inferior product. You might even feel company A spec grade receptacle is better than company B spec grade receptacle, but both meet listing requirements and you can't turn either one down as an inspection official.
 
peter d said:
I am adamantly opposed to that for one simple reason. I'm completely against any rules in the NEC that only fatten the manufacturers bottom line. That also opens up a total can of worms. Once they start making rules like that there is no end to it. They'll come up with stuff l like requiring that you must replace circuit breakers every 10 years. Or a total rewire after 30 years....etc. I don't trust the NEC in this regard.
Click to expand...

That's the problem. Try to do the right thing but I trust the NEC and UL as far as I can throw them to get it done fairly or objectively. What would it take for them to ban backstabbing? Why couldn't UL require all receptacles to withstand at least 500 insertions without degrading the contact pressure and their ability to handle the full rated current without heating? This seems simple but I'll bet the manufacturers would have a million reasons why it shouldn't be done. But the one they won't mention is that it affects their bottom line.

-Hal
 
hbiss said:
That's the problem. Try to do the right thing but I trust the NEC and UL as far as I can throw them to get it done fairly or objectively. What would it take for them to ban backstabbing? Why couldn't UL require all receptacles to withstand at least 500 insertions without degrading the contact pressure and their ability to handle the full rated current without heating? This seems simple but I'll bet the manufacturers would have a million reasons why it shouldn't be done. But the one they won't mention is that it affects their bottom line.

-Hal
Click to expand...
The way I see it, if I were a receptacle manufacturer, I'd have no problem with code mandating specification grade (or better). I'd still manufacture the low end product if my competition still is making and selling low end product though.

For purchasers this is kind of like deciding to purchase 4 ply or 6 ply tires. Either one will get it done, one may be better in the long run, some cases usage will be minimal and the lesser cost one may make more sense.

I put cheap grade receptacles in my house when it was new. Have replaced the most used ones with spec grade over time, they weren't holding onto cord caps very well. Some originals may have hardly been used at all.
 
kwired said:
I put cheap grade receptacles in my house when it was new. Have replaced the most used ones with spec grade over time, they weren't holding onto cord caps very well. Some originals may have hardly been used at all.
Click to expand...

I'm just as guilty. Thing is we know the difference and because we know what to look for we can make the changes when necessary. But when doing work for others, it looks like this is going to just have to be a design issue and a decision made between the EC and owner as to whether the added expense is justified. It could be an easy up sell if you explain it to them in the right way.

-Hal
 
peter d said:
I am adamantly opposed to that for one simple reason. I'm completely against any rules in the NEC that only fatten the manufacturers bottom line. That also opens up a total can of worms. Once they start making rules like that there is no end to it. They'll come up with stuff l like requiring that you must replace circuit breakers every 10 years. Or a total rewire after 30 years....etc. I don't trust the NEC in this regard.
Click to expand...

hbiss said:
That's the problem. Try to do the right thing but I trust the NEC and UL as far as I can throw them to get it done fairly or objectively. What would it take for them to ban backstabbing? Why couldn't UL require all receptacles to withstand at least 500 insertions without degrading the contact pressure and their ability to handle the full rated current without heating? This seems simple but I'll bet the manufacturers would have a million reasons why it shouldn't be done. But the one they won't mention is that it affects their bottom line.

-Hal
Click to expand...
At the risk of being cliche....who watches the watchers?

being-watched.jpg

:cool:
~RJ~
 
peter d said:
I think we do that to an extent here on the forum as long as we're not being interrupted by some paid industry mouthpiece telling us how stupid we are for doing so. :roll:
Click to expand...


methinks you're right Pete.....so...how much $$$ were we talkin'? :cool:~RJ~
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top