melted receptacle mystery

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MAC702 said:
All else being equal, no. The only real difference is the prong configuration, with the 15A receptacle having basically a rejection feature of the sideways prong on the 20A plug.
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:thumbsup: I have taught you well, Grasshopper. :D
 
charles2 said:
Are there brands that are not susceptible to this problem?
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Not a matter of brands. All manufacturers (Leviton, Pass&Seymour Legrand, Hubbell) make several different lines ranging from contractor grade (crap) to hospital grade.

For instance, download the P&S Legrand catalog. https://www.legrand.us/passandseymour/ps-2017-18-online-catalog/thank-you.aspx

Look at the receptacles on page B49. These are their Trademaster line which are the lowest grade and cheapest- the bare minimum you can get away with installing. And they allow backstabbing.

Browse the pages before that and you will see specification grade, commercial specification grade, heavy duty specification grade, hard use and hospital grade.

The minimum I would use is specification grade. In places where receptacles may see constant use like workshops you may want to consider heavy duty spec grade. Guaranteed if you use spec grade receptacles you can run a space heater off it all day with no problem.

charles2 said:
A related question: Would there be any improvement in safety by replacing 15A receptacles with 20A (leaving the breaker at 15A of course)?
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As was said, the only difference between a 15 and 20A receptacle is the slot configuration. A 20A receptacle will have a "T" slot on one side to allow a 20A plug which has one prong turned sideways to be inserted. But besides that, it's not allowed by Code to use 20A receptacles on a 15A circuit.

-Hal
 
If only there would come a day of reckoning for foisting these worthless pieces of junk onto the unsuspecting public all in the name of safety. :rant::rant::rant::rant::rant::rant:
 
Sparks4All said:
I would say the receptacle. Look how the top receptacles contacts cover the whole slot but the bottom contacts only come down about 30% of the way. I have seen similar burns when the neutral wire was not properly tightened down on the terminal screw. It could be loose quickwire terminals but I'm thinking it's just a poorly designed receptacle. Remind me not to use Cooper receptacles.
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I think Cooper devices are all junk, despite being UL listed. This is one of the reasons I never shop at Lowe's unless they carry something that HD and Menard's don't. I wish Lowe's would just drop the Cooper line and switch to Leviton like HD sells.
 
electricguy61 said:
Amen brother, Amen. AFCI’s are not only totally useless, they’re troublesome and expensive
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I second that!! Is Michigan the only state that sees the light on this matter? We don't require them at all; the requirement was dropped in 2015. All other states require them to my knowledge (at least for bedroom circuits).
 
DBoone said:
When end I was younger and living at home, before I ever thought about getting in the trades, I can’t tell you how many hours I would be at home and leave a heater plugged in and running in my bathroom during the winter...1970s wire... looking back I bet I really put a stress on the wire insulation and connections.
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I'd say just the connections, assuming wire was correctly sized.

hbiss said:
Is there any reason that we shouldn't require receptacle manufacturers to up the quality and make all their receptacles capable of handling the full circuit rating continuously? I'm sure there wouldn't be a problem like this with spec grade but when you install the cheapest crap out there this is what can happen. Sure it may cost 3 or 4 times as much but if they can make you pay $$$ for AFCIs that don't work, at least pay for something that will.

-Hal
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hbiss said:
Guaranteed if you use spec grade receptacles you can run a space heater off it all day with no problem.

-Hal
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For how many days - I've seen spec grade melted before from space heaters.

Not many other household items draw the heavy current like a space heater for what can easily be indefinite duration.

You run into some appliances that draw even more than space heaters, but never draw full load for more than a few minutes at a time, giving those weak connections a chance to cool down between cycles.
 
jeff48356 said:
I think Cooper devices are all junk, despite being UL listed. This is one of the reasons I never shop at Lowe's unless they carry something that HD and Menard's don't. I wish Lowe's would just drop the Cooper line and switch to Leviton like HD sells.
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Around here, Lowe's carries commercial grade receptacles.
 
As for the spec vs. resi grade receptacles, it would be great to use spec grade recepts in every house but there is about a $2 difference between a 15 amp resi TR and a spec grade TR. That's simply not going to happen in spec and tract houses.
 
peter d said:
As for the spec vs. resi grade receptacles, it would be great to use spec grade recepts in every house but there is about a $2 difference between a 15 amp resi TR and a spec grade TR. That's simply not going to happen in spec and tract houses.
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What about using better-grade receptacles in places where things are likely to be plugged/unplugged more frequently? Kitchen countertops (small appliances, etc.), bathrooms (hair dryers, curling irons, etc.), and hallways (vacuum cleaners). Also, have a new NEC requirement (or state requirement) where either the screw terminals or compression lugs must be used. No back-stab connections allowed anymore. These things will eliminate 99% of problems caused by loose connections at receptacles (either with plugs or the wiring itself).
 
kwired said:
For how many days - I've seen spec grade melted before from space heaters.
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Sure if they get worn out. But it's going to take a lot longer to wear a spec grade out than contractor grade, especially in a residential environment.

peter d said:
As for the spec vs. resi grade receptacles, it would be great to use spec grade recepts in every house but there is about a $2 difference between a 15 amp resi TR and a spec grade TR. That's simply not going to happen in spec and tract houses.
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Yeah exactly, it comes down to dollars and cents and when there is a choice the crap will always win out because we can make more money. What I'm saying is ban the crap and eliminate the choice. If the owner or GC has to pay more too bad. As it is we have the added expense of providing AFCI which does nothing. At least this will add some degree of safety.

-Hal
 
jeff48356 said:
What about using better-grade receptacles in places where things are likely to be plugged/unplugged more frequently? ...
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Well, SURE.

But I'm not going to do it on my dime, says the electrician.
And I'm not going to spec it straight off the profit margin, says the home builder.

It's the rare home buyer who understands that his house price is higher because he has better quality materials in it. They will buy the cheaper one across the street if it LOOKS the same.
 
And all receptacles look the same. Do you think a homeowner is even going to care that you used the cheapest ones? They have no clue until something happens.

-Hal
 
What's this I hear about GFCI receptacles being made to "time out" like smoke detectors after10 years so they will have to be replaced? Sounds good for locations like kitchen countertops and bathrooms.

-Hal
 
hbiss said:
What's this I hear about GFCI receptacles being made to "time out" like smoke detectors after10 years so they will have to be replaced? Sounds good for locations like kitchen countertops and bathrooms.

-Hal
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We should also do it with AFCI circuit breakers (which will be all circuit breakers, of course) and air conditioners. SOMETHING on those people's houses should be mandated to be replaced every month or so, and everybody gets a cut. Proper paperwork should be filed for government approval, also.
 
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