I was wondering what would be the cheapest way to fix a problem.I am pricing a job in which there is a meter bank with six meters.They would like to meter a seventh office space seperately.The service is 800 amp 3 phase.I know an 800 amp outdoor enclosure and breaker is over 4 thousand dollars.Any other way?Does this change all the panels inside the building to sub panels?5 wires now?Thanks in advance.
meter banks
- Thread starter jersey
- Start date
- Status
- Location
- Illinois
- Occupation
- retired electrician
Re: meter banks
Where are the existing service disconnects located?
Don
Where are the existing service disconnects located?
Don
allenwayne
Senior Member
Re: meter banks
Don what does it matter the subpanels are going to be remote if I understood.Unless they are within required distance from the mains and accesible
Don what does it matter the subpanels are going to be remote if I understood.Unless they are within required distance from the mains and accesible
charlie
Senior Member
- Location
- Indianapolis
Re: meter banks
Assuming the service is a lateral to the meter center, install a new meter next to the meter center without a disconnecting means. You still have a single service lateral in accordance with 230.2. Then use 230.40 Exc. 2 to run an additional set of service entrance conductors to the new location. At that location, you are permitted to have up to six disconnecting means in compliance with 230.71(A).
Assuming the service is a lateral to the meter center, install a new meter next to the meter center without a disconnecting means. You still have a single service lateral in accordance with 230.2. Then use 230.40 Exc. 2 to run an additional set of service entrance conductors to the new location. At that location, you are permitted to have up to six disconnecting means in compliance with 230.71(A).
Re: meter banks
Just to make sure i got you right,This is an overhead service So I can run a seperate service entrance conduit up the building, install a new meter then feed the additional panel?If so then must I have a disconnect before the feed enters the building? Also can that new service drop be only 100 amps?[sized]
Just to make sure i got you right,This is an overhead service So I can run a seperate service entrance conduit up the building, install a new meter then feed the additional panel?If so then must I have a disconnect before the feed enters the building? Also can that new service drop be only 100 amps?[sized]
charlie
Senior Member
- Location
- Indianapolis
Re: meter banks
I referred to a lateral which is underground. Since this is overhead, you are permitted only one service drop. The rest is still correct.
Sam (physis) is correct, the number of meters don't make any difference but the number of disconnecting means must be held to six at any one location.
As far as the location of the new group (1-6) of disconnecting means, follow 230.70(A)(1), "The service disconnecting means shall be installed at a readily accessible location either outside of a building or structure or inside nearest the point of entrance of the service conductors."
It sounds to me like you have it.
I referred to a lateral which is underground. Since this is overhead, you are permitted only one service drop. The rest is still correct.
Sam (physis) is correct, the number of meters don't make any difference but the number of disconnecting means must be held to six at any one location.
As far as the location of the new group (1-6) of disconnecting means, follow 230.70(A)(1), "The service disconnecting means shall be installed at a readily accessible location either outside of a building or structure or inside nearest the point of entrance of the service conductors."
It sounds to me like you have it.
jtester
Senior Member
- Location
- Las Cruces N.M.
Re: meter banks
charlie or sam
Could you explain how you comply with 230.40 Ex. #2? You seem to have 6 sets of service entrance conductors, from one lateral or drop, feeding grouped disconncts at one location, and then on the load side of the meter, you have another set of SE conductors, from the same lateral or drop, going to a location not grouped with the first 6.
Thanks
Jim T
charlie or sam
Could you explain how you comply with 230.40 Ex. #2? You seem to have 6 sets of service entrance conductors, from one lateral or drop, feeding grouped disconncts at one location, and then on the load side of the meter, you have another set of SE conductors, from the same lateral or drop, going to a location not grouped with the first 6.
Thanks
Jim T
physis
Senior Member
Re: meter banks
I, in all honesty, am outside of my experience. But.
I think the two most common meathods are a common entrance buss, or, conductor or buss taps.
230.40 Ex.2 does provide permission.
Edit: And the service drop can be spliced to multiple service entrance conductor sets.
[ February 11, 2005, 01:54 AM: Message edited by: physis ]
I, in all honesty, am outside of my experience. But.
I think the two most common meathods are a common entrance buss, or, conductor or buss taps.
230.40 Ex.2 does provide permission.
Edit: And the service drop can be spliced to multiple service entrance conductor sets.
[ February 11, 2005, 01:54 AM: Message edited by: physis ]
dnbob
Senior Member
- Location
- Rochester, MN
Re: meter banks
Charlie, or anyone
Is there an article that you are quoting that says the additional meter must be near the other meters?
Also, the code states that the disc. means be in separate enclosures, perhaps, not in a meter pack as I understand is the situation?
Bob
[ February 11, 2005, 07:02 AM: Message edited by: dnbob ]
Charlie, or anyone
Is there an article that you are quoting that says the additional meter must be near the other meters?
Also, the code states that the disc. means be in separate enclosures, perhaps, not in a meter pack as I understand is the situation?
Bob
[ February 11, 2005, 07:02 AM: Message edited by: dnbob ]
Re: meter banks
Charlie you say to add another meter but this confuses me.If I put another meter i would also have to put a disconnect befor entering the sub feeder cable inside the building.The additional panel is on the 3rd floor.Wouldnt this make it seven disc,s.Why can I not add anothor service drop as in figure 230.2c?Would this be allowed if this additional panel was only for house power,seperating it from tennant power?By the way that section referance is from the1999 handbook.Thanks
Charlie you say to add another meter but this confuses me.If I put another meter i would also have to put a disconnect befor entering the sub feeder cable inside the building.The additional panel is on the 3rd floor.Wouldnt this make it seven disc,s.Why can I not add anothor service drop as in figure 230.2c?Would this be allowed if this additional panel was only for house power,seperating it from tennant power?By the way that section referance is from the1999 handbook.Thanks
Re: meter banks
Charlie you say to add another meter but this confuses me.If I put another meter i would also have to put a disconnect befor entering the sub feeder cable inside the building.The additional panel is on the 3rd floor.Wouldnt this make it seven disc,s.Why can I not add anothor service drop as in figure 230.2c?Would this be allowed if this additional panel was only for house power,seperating it from tennant power?By the way that section referance is from the1999 handbook.Thanks
Charlie you say to add another meter but this confuses me.If I put another meter i would also have to put a disconnect befor entering the sub feeder cable inside the building.The additional panel is on the 3rd floor.Wouldnt this make it seven disc,s.Why can I not add anothor service drop as in figure 230.2c?Would this be allowed if this additional panel was only for house power,seperating it from tennant power?By the way that section referance is from the1999 handbook.Thanks
dnbob
Senior Member
- Location
- Rochester, MN
Re: meter banks
charlie
Senior Member
- Location
- Indianapolis
Re: meter banks
I am sorry, this has gotten very confusing. Ignore the meter, it is a wide place in the conduit and may go anywhere the serving electric utility wants it to go, within reason.
The existing service drop is hitting a meter center with six service equipments included in a single enclosure and the world is OK with that installation.
Now we install another set of service entrance conductors from the same service drop, 230.40 Exc. 2 permits us to do that.
You may now wrap around the building to any location of your choosing to the new service location. At the new location, you may have up to six means of disconnecting the new service. If the new location is on the third floor, that is OK. At that location, you have to meet the requirements of 230.70 and have the service disconnecting means at a readily accessible location either outside the building or inside nearest the point of entrance. If the disconnecting means is outside, in order for it to be readily accessible, it has to be on the outside at the first floor and the feeder conductors run to the third floor. If the disconnecting means is inside, you may take the service entrance conductors in at the third floor level.
Now let's talk about the meter. It is up to the serving electric utility as to its location. It is not service equipment. As a result of their rules, they will probably want the meter located next to the other meters so the meter reader doesn't have to look for a stray meter.
I am sorry, this has gotten very confusing. Ignore the meter, it is a wide place in the conduit and may go anywhere the serving electric utility wants it to go, within reason.
The existing service drop is hitting a meter center with six service equipments included in a single enclosure and the world is OK with that installation.
Now we install another set of service entrance conductors from the same service drop, 230.40 Exc. 2 permits us to do that.
You may now wrap around the building to any location of your choosing to the new service location. At the new location, you may have up to six means of disconnecting the new service. If the new location is on the third floor, that is OK. At that location, you have to meet the requirements of 230.70 and have the service disconnecting means at a readily accessible location either outside the building or inside nearest the point of entrance. If the disconnecting means is outside, in order for it to be readily accessible, it has to be on the outside at the first floor and the feeder conductors run to the third floor. If the disconnecting means is inside, you may take the service entrance conductors in at the third floor level.
Now let's talk about the meter. It is up to the serving electric utility as to its location. It is not service equipment. As a result of their rules, they will probably want the meter located next to the other meters so the meter reader doesn't have to look for a stray meter.
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