Meter base to main panel board. Egc or not?

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Danny89

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Hey guys, I am trying to get a definitive answer that is code compliant when leaving the meter base in a home on the load side to then feed the main panelboard what conductors leave in the conduit the then go feed the main panelboard?

I have seen it two ways and am wondering which way is code compliant.

Is it..
A)2 ungrounded conductors, 1 neutral, and 1 equipment grounding conductor

Or

B)2 ungrounded conductors, and 1 neutral...no equipment ground needed

This is in reference to residential

Please give code reference to support your thoughts.

Thanks in advance!

Sent from my Moto Z (2) using Tapatalk
 
Where does your N-G bond occur? If the bond occurs in the meter base, you must run L-L-N-G from the meter pan to the main panel. If the bond occurs in the main panel, you do not have to run the ground conductor; the meter base will be bonded to the neutral. Keep in mind that depending on the wiring method, the conduit may serve as the grounding conductor, so you may not have a green wire in the conduit even of the bond occurs in the meter base.

If the meter base contains overcurrent protection, you must separate the neutral and ground conductors; you now have a feeder and not service conductors.


SceneryDriver
 
On a vast majority of normal installs the neutral is permitted to serve as the grounding conductor on the line side of service (250.142) so it may be used to ground the meter base service panel(s). There is no need to install an EGC between the two.
 
SceneryDriver said:
Where does your N-G bond occur? If the bond occurs in the meter base, you must run L-L-N-G from the meter pan to the main panel. If the bond occurs in the main panel, you do not have to run the ground conductor; the meter base will be bonded to the neutral. Keep in mind that depending on the wiring method, the conduit may serve as the grounding conductor, so you may not have a green wire in the conduit even of the bond occurs in the meter base.

If the meter base contains overcurrent protection, you must separate the neutral and ground conductors; you now have a feeder and not service conductors.


SceneryDriver
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The MBJ has to be in the enclosure containing the service disconnect so when the meter neutral is bonded to the meter enclosure that is not the MBJ, no EGC is to be run between the two.
 
infinity said:
The MBJ has to be in the enclosure containing the service disconnect so when the meter neutral is bonded to the meter enclosure that is not the MBJ, no EGC is to be run between the two.
Click to expand...

You said it better than I did; probably easier to say "past the first OCPD, ground and neutral must be separated." Interestingly, I've seen the wire from the ground rods landed in the meter base several times, and the inspector passed it, though I know that many POCOs don't want the bond there.



SceneryDriver
 
Danny89 said:
Hey guys, I am trying to get a definitive answer that is code compliant when leaving the meter base in a home on the load side to then feed the main panelboard what conductors leave in the conduit the then go feed the main panelboard?

I have seen it two ways and am wondering which way is code compliant.

Is it..
A)2 ungrounded conductors, 1 neutral, and 1 equipment grounding conductor

Or

B)2 ungrounded conductors, and 1 neutral...no equipment ground needed

This is in reference to residential

Please give code reference to support your thoughts.

Thanks in advance!

Sent from my Moto Z (2) using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
A few more comments and code references:

1. There is no EGC between a meter with no disconnect and a service panel board, but what you might be seeing is a SSBJ connecting to say a bonding bushing. See 250.24(A) and 250.92.

2. If you were to run both a neuter and EGC between, that would be a violation of the parallel rules 310.10(H) and 250.6
 
SceneryDriver said:
You said it better than I did; probably easier to say "past the first OCPD, ground and neutral must be separated." Interestingly, I've seen the wire from the ground rods landed in the meter base several times, and the inspector passed it, though I know that many POCOs don't want the bond there.



SceneryDriver
Click to expand...
Depends on the poco, Georgia Power doesn’t want it anywhere in their equipment, but BRMEMC specs it to pass through the meterbase (inline lug) and out the mast. (GEC)
 
hillbilly1 said:
Depends on the poco, Georgia Power doesn’t want it anywhere in their equipment, but BRMEMC specs it to pass through the meterbase (inline lug) and out the mast. (GEC)
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Out to the mast? Weird. Is it connected to the incoming neutral from the pole up at the weatherhead? Seems like a waste of wire to run it all the way up the mast.


SceneryDriver
 
LarryFine said:
There is no EGC until you reach the main OCPD.
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This here. Ahead of the service disconnecting means you bond everything to the grounded conductor.

Individual meter sockets are usually used on service conductors and part of why the neutral lug is usually permanently bonded to the enclosure in them. Metering centers each meter is usually load side of service disconnect - those will often have isolated neutral (from the compartment closure) if there is even a neutral terminal within an individual meter compartment
 
electrofelon said:
A few more comments and code references:

1. There is no EGC between a meter with no disconnect and a service panel board, but what you might be seeing is a SSBJ connecting to say a bonding bushing. See 250.24(A) and 250.92.

2. If you were to run both a neuter and EGC between, that would be a violation of the parallel rules 310.10(H) and 250.6
Click to expand...
You kind of don't have a EGC anyway unless there is no bonding jumper in the panel and you land neutral on a isolated bar and the EGC on a bar bonded to the cabinet, instead you have parallel grounded conductor possibly comprised of different characteristics per element of the parallel run(s).
 
rnatalie said:
One tiny nit, Dr. Fine. It's merely the "service disconnect." It technically does not have to have any overcurrent feature in it. Mine does not, for example.
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Service disconnect must incorporate overcurrent protection. Can be adjacent to the disconnect though.

Stand alone switch with no overcurrent protection associated with it is not a service disconnecting means per NEC.
 
SceneryDriver said:
Out to the mast? Weird. Is it connected to the incoming neutral from the pole up at the weatherhead? Seems like a waste of wire to run it all the way up the mast.


SceneryDriver
Click to expand...
Yep, I don’t know if they still require it, but the last overhead service was a meter/main combo, so it wasn’t practical, so I didn’t do it. They hooked it up anyway, so they may have abandoned the practice. On underground they still want it in the meter the last I heard. I think their engineers at the time thought it would be a straighter path for surges from their end.
 
kwired said:
Service disconnect must incorporate overcurrent protection. Can be adjacent to the disconnect though.

Stand alone switch with no overcurrent protection associated with it is not a service disconnecting means per NEC.
Click to expand...

Um, yes it is. The service disconnecting means (240.70 and following) and the service overcurrent protection (240.90) are distinct in the code. Yes, they must either be integrated together or adjacent, but it is the disconnecting means where the separate grounded conductor requirements starts. Yes, it's rare that this is an issue, but I've been caught with this in the past. Had to run that extra length of wire between the two.
 
rnatalie said:
Um, yes it is. The service disconnecting means (240.70 and following) and the service overcurrent protection (240.90) are distinct in the code. Yes, they must either be integrated together or adjacent, but it is the disconnecting means where the separate grounded conductor requirements starts. Yes, it's rare that this is an issue, but I've been caught with this in the past. Had to run that extra length of wire between the two.
Click to expand...
Ok, I thought you were implying there doesn't need to be overcurrent device(s). Yes the switch itself is still the disconnecting means, it does need associated overcurrent protection to also be a "service disconnecting means".
 
The purpose of the equipment grounding system is for a line-to-ground fault to "mimic" a line-to-neutral fault to operate the OCPD.
 
rnatalie said:
Um, yes it is. The service disconnecting means (240.70 and following) and the service overcurrent protection (240.90) are distinct in the code. Yes, they must either be integrated together or adjacent, but it is the disconnecting means where the separate grounded conductor requirements starts. Yes, it's rare that this is an issue, but I've been caught with this in the past. Had to run that extra length of wire between the two.
Click to expand...
Right, a switch is not in that list of items permitted on the supply side of the service disconnect (unless it's a meter disconnect), so a switch has to be your service disconnect. The tricky thing is most manufacturers will say you must have over current protection ahead of a NF switch so it is questionably compliant to have a NF disco as a service disconnect.
 
SceneryDriver said:
You said it better than I did; probably easier to say "past the first OCPD, ground and neutral must be separated." Interestingly, I've seen the wire from the ground rods landed in the meter base several times, and the inspector passed it, though I know that many POCOs don't want the bond there.

SceneryDriver
Click to expand...
The code permits the GEC to be connected at any point between the load end of the utility conductors and the neutral bus of the service equipment.

While some utilities do not want an GEC connection made in their meter, ours requires ground rods, even if the code does not, and requires that the GEC from the ground rods be connected in the meter can or CT cabinet.
 
don_resqcapt19 said:
The code permits the GEC to be connected at any point between the load end of the utility conductors and the neutral bus of the service equipment.

While some utilities do not want an GEC connection made in their meter, ours requires ground rods, even if the code does not, and requires that the GEC from the ground rods be connected in the meter can or CT cabinet.
Click to expand...
Have one utility here that wants a ground rod connected to meter socket whether there is other grounding electrodes present or not on the same building/structure.
 
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