Meter/main breaker combo units

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wc86 said:
I've been told that no manufacturers have been making code compliant multi-family meter/main combos since the 2020 code change besides Milbank. Is this true?
These are what I'm refering to. https://www.milbankworks.com/getmed...ilbank_Meter-Mains-Compliant-with-NEC2020.pdf
Im just trying to get an overall understanding of whats going on.
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Yes it is true. In another stroke of genius, the out of touch code writers made a change when there was no equipment available to meet the change. The relevant 2020 code section is 230.71(B)(4). This essentially required service disconnects be in separate compartments or enclosures (depending on the specific equipment - meter centers are slightly more lax and only require separate compartments not completely separate enclosures). I am not really up on the current availability of compliant products, but it seems there are at least several options available now. Some jurisdictions delayed the implementation of 230.71(B)(4) so you may want to check your local codes.
 
electrofelon said:
Yes it is true. In another stroke of genius, the out of touch code writers made a change when there was no equipment available to meet the change. The relevant 2020 code section is 230.71(B)(4). This essentially required service disconnects be in separate compartments or enclosures (depending on the specific equipment - meter centers are slightly more lax and only require separate compartments not completely separate enclosures). I am not really up on the current availability of compliant products, but it seems there are at least several options available now. Some jurisdictions delayed the implementation of 230.71(B)(4) so you may want to check your local codes.
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When a new rule with a new concept is added to the code, there will not be code compliant equipment available for 3 to 6 years as the product standards have to be change...a process that can take over 3 years, and then products will have to be manufactured to the new standard.
The members of the standards technical committee could not agree on what the new standard should say for a long time so there was no product standard to manufacture to.

When the code creates a new rule like this, there is typically a statement that says the rule does not take effect for 3 years, but that was not the case with this change. In this case, even a 3 year future effective date would not have been enough.

As far as I know there is no multi-meter meter/mains with more than two meters that is compliant with the current code language. If you need more than two meters in a multi-meter assembly, you will need a line side service disconnect.
 
don_resqcapt19 said:
When a new rule with a new concept is added to the code, there will not be code compliant equipment available for 3 to 6 years as the product standards have to be change...a process that can take over 3 years, and then products will have to be manufactured to the new standard.
The members of the standards technical committee could not agree on what the new standard should say for a long time so there was no product standard to manufacture to.

When the code creates a new rule like this, there is typically a statement that says the rule does not take effect for 3 years, but that was not the case with this change. In this case, even a 3 year future effective date would not have been enough.

As far as I know there is no multi-meter meter/mains with more than two meters that is compliant with the current code language. If you need more than two meters in a multi-meter assembly, you will need a line side service disconnect.
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The line side disconnect on unipac style meter assembly are fairly common I'll add. Even if it's not in some areas many do have them. There just isn't much equipment set up for 3 to 6 units that meets the rules.
 
letgomywago said:
The line side disconnect on unipac style meter assembly are fairly common I'll add. Even if it's not in some areas many do have them. There just isn't much equipment set up for 3 to 6 units that meets the rules.
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And there probably won't be as the product standard for the multi-meter assemblies with service disconnects, has defined the "compartment" for each service disconnect as an enclosure that meets the requirements of UL 50...the product standard for junction boxes.
 
don_resqcapt19 said:
When a new rule with a new concept is added to the code, there will not be code compliant equipment available for 3 to 6 years as the product standards have to be change...a process that can take over 3 years, and then products will have to be manufactured to the new standard.
The members of the standards technical committee could not agree on what the new standard should say for a long time so there was no product standard to manufacture to.

When the code creates a new rule like this, there is typically a statement that says the rule does not take effect for 3 years, but that was not the case with this change. In this case, even a 3 year future effective date would not have been enough.

As far as I know there is no multi-meter meter/mains with more than two meters that is compliant with the current code language. If you need more than two meters in a multi-meter assembly, you will need a line side service disconnect.
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IMO the wording in 90.4 should be changed from "may" to "must (until complying products are available)".
 
letgomywago said:
That'd make a lot of changes. You could say since no one makes a pvc box a certain size so you can ect...
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I dont think so, nor do I see your point. This is the whole section I was referring to:

This Code may require new products, constructions, or materials that may not yet be available at the time the Code is adopted. In such event, the authority having jurisdiction may permit the use of the products, constructions, or materials that comply with the most recent previous edition of this Code adopted by the jurisdiction.
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Changing the red "may" to "must" would simply require the AHJ to allow previously compliant products when new ones required by code changes have not come to market yet.
 
electrofelon said:
I dont think so, nor do I see your point. This is the whole section I was referring to:



Changing the red "may" to "must" would simply require the AHJ to allow previously compliant products when new ones required by code changes have not come to market yet.
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Maybe I still feel it would be abused. WA should make a guideline so they don't have the whole 2 200 amp meter main issue again and they have hearings just to extend it for 1 year ect
 
letgomywago said:
If the manufacturer isn't pushed to produce they might not ever.
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There are plenty of code complaint methods, so there is no need for the manufactures to come up with a new design.
Even if you the word "may" was changed to "must" I would never give the 90.4 written permission on this issue, as the code does not require a new product to comply. Existing products comply...may not look as nice or be as cost effective, but they comply with the code rules.
 
don_resqcapt19 said:
There are plenty of code complaint methods, so there is no need for the manufactures to come up with a new design.
Even if you the word "may" was changed to "must" I would never give the 90.4 written permission on this issue, as the code does not require a new product to comply. Existing products comply...may not look as nice or be as cost effective, but they comply with the code rules.
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Come on Don, I have to vehemently disagree with you here. Sure there is always another way, but no i dont find cobbing up 6 stand alone meters nippled to disconnects to be an acceptable alternative. Same thing could be said of the line side connector issue, "there is another way" - no installing a bussed gutter or some other absurd way to make a tap for a little solar system is not a valid alternative in my opinion.

I dont see how you could disallow the installation if the word was changed to "must" unless you had a local amendment changing or not adopting 94.7

This Code may require new products, constructions, or materials that may not yet be available at the time the Code is adopted. In such event, the authority having jurisdiction must permit the use of the products, constructions, or materials that comply with the most recent previous edition of this Code adopted by the jurisdiction.
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There is nothing in there speaking of alternatives and if they exist.
 
wc86 said:
So whats been everyones work around?
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Here, Dominion Energy provides meter bases free, so I would pick up a 320/400a base from them and buy a pair of 200a breaker-equipped disconnects. Total cost well under $400.

www.homedepot.com

Eaton 200 Amp Enclosed 2-Pole Outdoor Circuit Breaker ECCVH200R - The Home Depot

Provide housing for a circuit breaker installed along the exterior of your home with this Eaton Enclosed Outdoor Circuit Breaker.
www.homedepot.com

www.homedepot.com

Square D QO 200 Amp 2-Pole Outdoor Circuit Breaker Enclosure with QOM2200VH Breaker QOM2E2200NRB - The Home Depot

This affordable Square D QO 2-Pole Outdoor Circuit Breaker Enclosure with QOM2200VH Breaker Includes a PKOGTA-2 ground bar kit, B-hubs not included.
www.homedepot.com
 
LarryFine said:
Here, Dominion Energy provides meter bases free, so I would pick up a 320/400a base from them and buy a pair of 200a breaker-equipped disconnects. Total cost well under $400.

www.homedepot.com

Eaton 200 Amp Enclosed 2-Pole Outdoor Circuit Breaker ECCVH200R - The Home Depot

Provide housing for a circuit breaker installed along the exterior of your home with this Eaton Enclosed Outdoor Circuit Breaker.
www.homedepot.com

www.homedepot.com

Square D QO 200 Amp 2-Pole Outdoor Circuit Breaker Enclosure with QOM2200VH Breaker QOM2E2200NRB - The Home Depot

This affordable Square D QO 2-Pole Outdoor Circuit Breaker Enclosure with QOM2200VH Breaker Includes a PKOGTA-2 ground bar kit, B-hubs not included.
www.homedepot.com
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Georgia Power does the same thing, if you give them the address where it’s going, but the EMC’s will sell you one.
 
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