Meter / Main setup

[ZachHane]

UL 231 lists power outlets including meter-mains.

Any metering equipment (meter-mains) with the neutral bus bolted to the cabinet frame must be marked "Suitable ONLY for use as Service Equipment." Those Eaton meter-mains may be missing the marking, but they are listed as Suitable ONLY for use as Service Equipment. This equipment can only be installed per 2023 MEC 230.85(B)(1) and marked EMERGENCY DISCONNECT- SERVICE DISCONNECT per 230.85(E)(1)(1)

Service equipment that is marked "Suitable for Use as Service Equipment" (SUSE) will have a floating neutral buss, An example is a Eaton 200-amp Breaker Disconnect that is SUSE rated and these are permitted to be installed per 230.85(B)(3) and marked EMERGENCY DISCONNECT- NOT SERVICE EQUIPMENT per 230.85(E)(1)(3) and installed as such you can run the 3-wire SEU into a Main Breaker Service Equipment Panel and leave those dangerous 3-wire dryer and range branch circuits.

Example below of a SUSE rated floating neutral service rated disconnect...

View attachment 2574999

Yes for a period of time Milbank was sending both stickers. But, this violated the listing and now that no longer happens.

Why do I say are 3-wire range and dryer branch circuits dangerous? Well generally they are not when qualified persons are involved. But when those unqualified appliance delivery persons are installing the cords at delivery, that can be dangerous and has killed people by electrocution. Now if it were a new 4-wire branch circuit with GFCI, incorrectly installed cords will trip the breaker, no-one gets hurt.

I’m sorry I’m so late to the response. Thank you for all that info!

I definitely agree with the danger of the 3 wire appliances existing. With that said, I’ve mentioned to customers the danger & how I would go about changing them out. Some clients have fully finished basements with no “good” way of getting a new wire there at a “cost friendly” price point.

You definitely cleared that up with the floating neutral.

Would my gec go into the outside disconnect? Or right into the main panel at that point?

Thanks again!

 

[shortcircuit2]

I do not agree with the "cost" and "difficulty" when it comes to a safe electrical installation.

According to 250.24(A)(1) the GEC can connect at either the outside disconnect or the inside service equipment.

 

[infinity]

I've used the Eaton 200 amp circuit breaker because it can be used as either the EM or the Service disconnect with a field bonded neutral. Regardless of how it's used (EM or the Service disconnect) the neutral will still be bonded to the enclosure so the only really concern is calling it not servcie equipment when the neutral is factory bonded.

 

[electrofelon]

I've used the Eaton 200 amp circuit breaker because it can be used as either the EM or the Service disconnect with a field bonded neutral. Regardless of how it's used (EM or the Service disconnect) the neutral will still be bonded to the enclosure so the only really concern is calling it not servcie equipment when the neutral is factory bonded.
View attachment 2575199

Just as a little aside, what is with the two main bonding jumpers? Are you supposed to use both of them? More poorly designed equipment, with not enough terminals for even a basic installation

 

[infinity]

Just as a little aside, what is with the two main bonding jumpers? Are you supposed to use both of them? More poorly designed equipment, with not enough terminals for even a basic installation

It came with two so I installed both. It's likely that only one was required but it did have two holes in the enclosure so you have to wonder if the manufacturer wanted both to be installed. Four holes on the bus isn't enough?

 

[electrofelon]

It came with two so I installed both. It's likely that only one was required but it did have two holes in the enclosure so you have to wonder if the manufacturer wanted both to be installed. Four holes on the bus isn't enough?

Yeah I don't usually use Eaton stuff but doing some solar interconnections for a guy who does so I installed several of those in the last few months, I was just curious about the two MBJ's

If you have an outgoing EGC and a GEC (or two) you run out of terminals fast, not to mention it's in a stupid spot and number four Max which might not fit the outgoing EGC. Sure you can add a ground bar but for 37 cents they could have had a better designedneutral terminal with a couple more holes including a few larger size. Probably another case of whoever designed this has never picked up a pair of linesman's.

 

[kwired]

Yeah I don't usually use Eaton stuff but doing some solar interconnections for a guy who does so I installed several of those in the last few months, I was just curious about the two MBJ's

If you have an outgoing EGC and a GEC (or two) you run out of terminals fast, not to mention it's in a stupid spot and number four Max which might not fit the outgoing EGC. Sure you can add a ground bar but for 37 cents they could have had a better designedneutral terminal with a couple more holes including a few larger size. Probably another case of whoever designed this has never picked up a pair of linesman's.

The Square D equivalent breaker enclosures to this also have two larger neutral terminals and two smaller (though they will take maybe up to 1/0) terminals. They also have aux lug kit that can be bolted to the can which of course is going to be more limited to only landing EGC's on that.

Their bonding screw is larger - smaller screw maybe the reason the Eaton has two bonding jumpers?

 

[electrofelon]

The Square D equivalent breaker enclosures to this also have two larger neutral terminals and two smaller (though they will take maybe up to 1/0) terminals. They also have aux lug kit that can be bolted to the can which of course is going to be more limited to only landing EGC's on that.

Their bonding screw is larger - smaller screw maybe the reason the Eaton has two bonding jumpers?

I was going to dig through the instructions to see if they required both MBJ's to be used - but I didn't.

Yeah some enclosed circuit breakers and safety switches are better than others, but it does almost always seem to be a battle to have enough terminals.