motor operated appliance NOT mark overcurrent protection anywhere

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hhsting

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I have motor operated appliance whose manufacturer install instruction does Not mark overcurrent protection size and it is also Not marked on appliance.

I am trying to figure out in NEC 2014 how to size branch circuit breaker in panelboard to the motor operated appliance which does Not mark overcurrent protection in instruction or does not mark on appliance.

I looked at NEC 2014 Section 422.11 which says appliance shall be protected against overcurrent in accordance with 42.11(A) to 422.11(G).

NEC 2014 section 422.11(A) first paragraph says branch circuit shall be protected in accordance with 240.4. When I look at 240.4 it is not clear if 240.4(A) or 240.4(G) apply. Also if 240.4(G) applies then table 240.4(G) points back to part II of 422 which then goes back to 422.11 and goes in cycle without know how to size branch circuit breaker.


Does anyone know how to size branch circuit breaker in panelboard to the motor operated appliance which does Not mark overcurrent protection in instruction or Not mark on appliance according to NEC 2014?
 
hhsting said:
I have motor operated appliance whose manufacturer install instruction does Not mark overcurrent protection size and it is also Not marked on appliance.

I am trying to figure out in NEC 2014 how to size branch circuit breaker in panelboard to the motor operated appliance which does Not mark overcurrent protection in instruction or does not mark on appliance.

I looked at NEC 2014 Section 422.11 which says appliance shall be protected against overcurrent in accordance with 422.11(A) to 422.11(G).

NEC 2014 section 422.11(A) first paragraph says branch circuit shall be protected in accordance with 240.4. When I look at 240.4 it is not clear if 240.4(B) or 240.4(G) apply. Also if 240.4(G) applies then table 240.4(G) points back to part II of 422 which then goes back to 422.11 and goes in cycle without know how to size branch circuit breaker.


Does anyone know how to size branch circuit breaker in panelboard to the motor operated appliance which does Not mark overcurrent protection in instruction or Not mark on appliance according to NEC 2014?
Click to expand...

Sorry made mistake one of the code section post #1. Amended post #1 as above fourth paragraph from top should be 240.4(B) Not 240.4(A).
 
See Part V of 422 then tell the designer to correct the problem.

Roger
 
The suspense is killing me. What is the above mentioned appliance?
 
In this case appliances are as follows and designer only knows voltage phase HP each has its own branch circuit to Panelboard direct hard wired:

1. Rooftop Kitchen make up air unit (supply fan SF-1) 120V, single phase, 60Hz, 1.5HP

2. Rooftop Kitchen exhaust fan EF-1 for Fryer hood 120V, single phase, 60Hz, 1 HP

3. Rooftop Kitchen exhaust fan EF-2 for Griddle hood 120V, single phase, 60 Hz, 1 Hp


Problem is not about marking itself but its about overcurrent protection sizing if overcurrent protection size is Not marked on direct wired appliance and not in manufacturer instruction. Please see post#1 and its question
 
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hhsting said:
In this case appliances are as follows and designer only knows voltage phase HP each has its own branch circuit to Panelboard direct hard wired:

1. Rooftop Kitchen make up air unit (supply fan SF-1) 120V, single phase, 60Hz, 1.5HP

2. Rooftop Kitchen exhaust fan EF-1 for Fryer hood 120V, single phase, 60Hz, 1 HP

3. Rooftop Kitchen exhaust fan EF-2 for Griddle hood 120V, single phase, 60 Hz, 1 Hp


Problem is not about marking itself but its about overcurrent protection sizing if overcurrent protection size is Not marked on direct wired appliance and not in manufacturer instruction. Please see post#1 and its question
Click to expand...

430.250 table will give you flc with horse power


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
hhsting said:
In this case appliances are as follows and designer only knows voltage phase HP each has its own branch circuit to Panelboard direct hard wired:

1. Rooftop Kitchen make up air unit (supply fan SF-1) 120V, single phase, 60Hz, 1.5HP

2. Rooftop Kitchen exhaust fan EF-1 for Fryer hood 120V, single phase, 60Hz, 1 HP

3. Rooftop Kitchen exhaust fan EF-2 for Griddle hood 120V, single phase, 60 Hz, 1 Hp


Problem is not about marking itself but its about overcurrent protection sizing if overcurrent protection size is Not marked on direct wired appliance and not in manufacturer instruction. Please see post#1 and its question
Click to expand...

Tell the designer or who ever is furnishing this to comply with part V of 422 and quit wasting time on it, particularly 422.62(B)(1).

Roger
 
RRJ said:
430.250 table will give you flc with horse power


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Click to expand...

Its not clear if one can use 430 or not. 422.11(A) points to 240.4 if no overcurrent protection size available from manufacturer.

It is not clear if one can use 240.4(B) or 240.4(G). Even if one uses 240.4(G) then table 240.4(G) points back to 422 Part II
 
hhsting said:
Its not clear if one can use 430 or not. 422.11(A) points to 240.4 if no overcurrent protection size available from manufacturer.

It is not clear if one can use 240.4(B) or 240.4(G). Even if one uses 240.4(G) then table 240.4(G) points back to 422 Part II
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If you want to go the 430 route tell them to comply with 430.7 or if you're going to call it an appliance 422.62, either way the equipment has to have specific information on the name plate and the designer needs to show the conductor sizes and OCPD on the plans.

Roger
 
Nameplates content in those sections marking OCP sizes and conductor sizes are coming from who designer calculation or manufacturer must provide OCP and conductor sizes? Its just says nameplate provided
 
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hhsting said:
Nameplates content in those sections marking OCP sizes and conductor sizes are coming from who designer calculation or manufacturer must provide OCP and conductor sizes? Its just says nameplate provided
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You need to read the sections, for example

(D) Multimotor and Combination-Load Equipment.
(1) Factory-Wired. Multimotor and combination-load equipment
shall be provided with a visible nameplate marked with
the manufacturer’s name, the rating in volts, frequency, number
of phases, minimum supply circuit conductor ampacity,
and the maximum ampere rating of the circuit short-circuit
and ground-fault protective device. The conductor ampacity
shall be calculated in accordance with 430.24 and counting
all of the motors and other loads that will be operated at the
same time. The short-circuit and ground-fault protective
device rating shall not exceed the value calculated in accordance
with 430.53. Multimotor equipment for use on two
or more circuits shall be marked with the preceding information
for each circuit.
Click to expand...

Roger
 
roger said:
Tell the designer or who ever is furnishing this to comply with part V of 422 and quit wasting time on it, particularly 422.62(B)(1).

Roger
Click to expand...
How does 422.62, Appliances Consisting of Motors and Other Loads, apply. It appears that this is single motor equipment.

I have never seen anything other than the hp, volts, current, phase, and something that says external overload protection is not needed or is needed, on the nameplates for this type of equipment.
I have treated these as motors and applied the rules in 430 for them.
 
don_resqcapt19 said:
How does 422.62, Appliances Consisting of Motors and Other Loads, apply. It appears that this is single motor equipment.

I have never seen anything other than the hp, volts, current, phase, and something that says external overload protection is not needed or is needed, on the nameplates for this type of equipment.
I have treated these as motors and applied the rules in 430 for them.
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Don, read the first post, the OP states there is no name plate, that is the gist of the thread. 430 and 422 require name plates, if you missed it I pointed it out in post #12

Roger
 
roger said:
Don, read the first post, the OP states there is no name plate, that is the gist of the thread. 430 and 422 require name plates, if you missed it I pointed it out in post #12

Roger
Click to expand...
But nameplate or not 422.62 does not apply to a single motor fan.
I really doubt that there is no nameplate...many times that plate is under the mushroom head, and I doubt that the OP have even seen the equipment in question.
 
don_resqcapt19 said:
But nameplate or not 422.62 does not apply to a single motor fan.
Click to expand...
Don, I didn't say it did. The OP wanted to say the equipment in question was an appliance (see the thread title) so I gave him the article section that requires a name plate. In post #12 I pointed out that both articles 422 and 430 require name plates.
don_resqcapt19 said:
I really doubt that there is no nameplate...many times that plate is under the mushroom head, and I doubt that the OP have even seen the equipment in question.
Click to expand...
Same here, how would he have the info he has posted. Now in fairness to the OP since we are still discussing this in his thread I will reopen it.

Roger
 
...the OP states there is no name plate

These are not appliances! You take your information off the motors. THE NAME PLATE IS ON EACH MOTOR.

You just listed all you need to know anyway.

1. Rooftop Kitchen make up air unit (supply fan SF-1) 120V, single phase, 60Hz, 1.5HP

2. Rooftop Kitchen exhaust fan EF-1 for Fryer hood 120V, single phase, 60Hz, 1 HP

3. Rooftop Kitchen exhaust fan EF-2 for Griddle hood 120V, single phase, 60 Hz, 1 Hp

Now go to T430.248 and look up the full load currents for each fan. Only additional thing you need to find out is whether each motor is internally overload protected (I strongly suspect these 120V motors are) and if not you will need to supply a starter.

-Hal
 
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