moving gfic outlet

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Jim W in Tampa said:
Has the use of bathroom changed any ?
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That has nothing to do with it.



Your forcing a huge cost to bring the house up to code in one very small area.
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The person is remodeling, when you remodel you have to spend money.



Like i said this is why some do not pull permits. Bypass permit and save hundreds.
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That has nothing to do with the requirements either.
 
iwire said:
That has nothing to do with it.





The person is remodeling, when you remodel you have to spend money.





That has nothing to do with the requirements either.
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Bob ,it has everything to do with it. Remodeling is costly but we need to apply thinking. $500 or more to run a 20 amp circuit and cause another $500 in damage to ceilings and walls in patching,painting. When done you have done nothing to help safety. If overloaded the breaker will trip. Yes i know nec would call it new, i call it moved. Inspector has every right to call it new. Knowing this upfront is why many simply do not pull permits. Thats fact.
NEC cares less about inspections, not required. Only argument here is was it moved or is it new. Reuse and rerout wire, keep same box and gfi receptacle and plate cover, is it NEW ?
 
Jim W in Tampa said:
Bob ,it has everything to do with it. Remodeling is costly but we need to apply thinking. $500 or more to run a 20 amp circuit and cause another $500 in damage to ceilings and walls in patching,painting. When done you have done nothing to help safety. If overloaded the breaker will trip.
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This isn't about thinking, it's about priorities. You have to draw a line somewhere, and this is where it is. It really doesn't matter at what particular level they place the bar, there will always be those people who want what they want, and attempt to skirt the bar and bend under, instead of jumping through it.

Yes i know nec would call it new, i call it moved. Inspector has every right to call it new. Knowing this upfront is why many simply do not pull permits. Thats fact.
NEC cares less about inspections, not required. Only argument here is was it moved or is it new. Reuse and rerout wire, keep same box and gfi receptacle and plate cover, is it NEW ?
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In the end, giving this installation a pass or not pulling a permit would result in the same thing - the violation gets reinstalled.
 
just back from the redo of the moved gfic. pulled orignal wires to attic and conected in a juction box.found out this gfic was protecting 4 outside outlets. installed new weather res.gfic and inuse cover at fist outlet and protected beyond to rest.then on to the new wire. found the cable guys allready had a small hole in front of box in ceiling [thats a story for another day]so cut a small hole in wall between panel and ceiling then went upstairs to a closet and cut a hole above trunk line for heating system used this area to pull to furance room then snaked in joist with drain line over to wall by sink up to new box. the 24 ft in the boxed in area by the trunk line was a little tough by myself but got it done got it passed now. used 3x as much wire but only two patches for the general:smile:
 
"When there is a will, there is a way"

When an inspector takes a job, there is no dotted line on the contract that states he can pick and choose which codes he will inspect to.


Jim
Sometimes you are very hard nose and other times you seem to think that you can do what you want. Consistency is the name of the game.
 
LawnGuyLandSparky said:
This isn't about thinking, it's about priorities. You have to draw a line somewhere, and this is where it is. It really doesn't matter at what particular level they place the bar, there will always be those people who want what they want, and attempt to skirt the bar and bend under, instead of jumping through it.



In the end, giving this installation a pass or not pulling a permit would result in the same thing - the violation gets reinstalled.
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Was it a violation before moved ? Depending on year of code at time it likely was not a violation. So no its not reinstalling a violation. But he fixed it anyways and likely out of pocked. What he was trying to do is relocate the receptacle not install an extra. Where in NEC does it say we cant move existing without bringing it code year now in effect. Actually nec cant say what year to inforce. That is up to the ahj.
 
Jim I had so much to say but Pierre summed it up well. :smile:

Pierre said:
Jim
Sometimes you are very hard nose and other times you seem to think that you can do what you want. Consistency is the name of the game.
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In one thread your telling us how the slightest thing will get us sued and in another thread your saying following the code is senseless. :confused:
 
iwire said:
Jim I had so much to say but Pierre summed it up well. :smile:



In one thread your telling us how the slightest thing will get us sued and in another thread your saying following the code is senseless. :confused:
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Is there any way that moving this outlet a few feet changed what it was. It was in service for years and legal at time of install. It is not ideal in that it has limited amps but not a shock hazard or fire hazard. Not saying he can win the fight with inspector cause he cant but can you come up with any good reason to have not allowed this move ? In this case i dont see a lawsuit, maybe you do. Yes i am strong headed in what i believe and if i see safety involved i am for making it right.
 
So if the wall is open and the bathroom is being remolded and they want to move the receptacle up 2 " (plenty of slack on the wire) do you all feel like I must upgrade to 20 amp cir.?
 
iaov said:
I don't know if you'll be wrong but I do know there will be no having to argue with the inspector. Also I think the 20 amp circuit in the bathroom is a good idea, code or not.
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Is no argument that a 20 is good idea, i have done bathrooms that had 3 dedicated gfci circuits for bathroom. Disagreement is over moving one a little bit and now we are at is a 1 inch move illegal without upgrade ? How about 36 inches ? Moving is moving
 
iaov said:
I don't know if you'll be wrong but I do know there will be no having to argue with the inspector. Also I think the 20 amp circuit in the bathroom is a good idea, code or not.
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I agree and I must say in my 28 years as an ec I never installed a bathroom recep that wasn't on a 20 amp cir. In the above case I would change it if I had to.
 
My wife plugs in 2 curling irons and a hair dryer every morning. I was at a big power plant this winter and the ops there told me that the grid takes a heck of a hit every morning when the ladies turn the hair dyers on!:D
 
Dennis Alwon said:
I agree and I must say in my 28 years as an ec I never installed a bathroom recep that wasn't on a 20 amp cir. In the above case I would change it if I had to.
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Can we assume you did not do track homes ? That extra circuit could easily make you high bidder. I would not want what was legal 25 years ago but thats what contractors wanted was cheap,cheap,cheap. They were not low end homes either. Customers do not see wires they see fixtures.
 
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