Mudrings and Boxes

[infinity]

Just curious how do they recess electrical boxes across the pond?

 

[Besoeker]

To be blunt, what are you having trouble with? Do you not understand how it works or do you find it to be another silly American thing?

I didn't know what it was used for. Wayne has kindly explained.

If the latter, what do y'all use over there? Here, the 4 square box with mudring is the method used in 98% of commercial wiring.

Here the size for a standard light switch or single gang power socket is about 84mm by 84mm (about 3.3 inches). For multigang units the width vaties but the height stays the same. The boxes set into the wall are a few mm smaller so the fixtire covers them and there is no need for anything like a mud ring.

Here's a double gang socket I installed at home:

 

[Besoeker]

Just curious how do they recess electrical boxes across the pond?

Usually cut a hole in the plaster. The fitting is slightly larger than the box so the box is hidden. Nothing to be concealed.
The boxes are in standard sizes and take standard fittings. Switches, power sockets etc.

We redecorated our kitchen a few months ago.
Before:

The later version:

The fitting comes with a USB port but the important thing for me was that it fits in the same recessed box as the old unit. No mud ring filler required.

Perhaps this goes some way to explain why I had difficulty in grasping the concept.

 

[Smart $]

Usually cut a hole in the plaster. The fitting is slightly larger than the box so the box is hidden. Nothing to be concealed.
...

We have those, too. What you are calling the fitting is two pieces over here, a device and a faceplate (could also be called a trim ring). Looks like some of your fittings may be of two-piece design also., but the last pictured appears to be of one-piece design.

 

[growler]

Usually cut a hole in the plaster. The fitting is slightly larger than the box so the box is hidden. Nothing to be concealed.
The boxes are in standard sizes and take standard fittings. Switches, power sockets etc.

We redecorated our kitchen a few months ago.
Before:

The later version:

The fitting comes with a USB port but the important thing for me was that it fits in the same recessed box as the old unit. No mud ring filler required.

Perhaps this goes some way to explain why I had difficulty in grasping the concept.

We also have single gang boxes that don't require a plaster ring (mud ring).

One difference is that we are allowed to make taps in the box( useing the dreaded wire nuts ) and this will increase the number of conductors so a larger box is required. These larger boxes are installed before the sheetrock and the plaster ring is sort of an adapter. You can use either a single gang or a double gang and and the sheetrock should be cut to fit the plaster ring.

Our system is a little cheaper and easier to deal with when it comes to repair because all the individual parts can be replaced without spending lots of money on materials. It's easy to replace a single switch in a four gang switch box we don't need to buy the whole assembly.

 

[SceneryDriver]

Ignorant Brit again.........
Mud ring?

A picture may help:

http://ec-i21.geccdn.net/site/images/n-picgroup/63900.jpg


SceneryDriver

 

[Besoeker]

We have those, too. What you are calling the fitting is two pieces over here, a device and a faceplate (could also be called a trim ring). Looks like some of your fittings may be of two-piece design also., but the last pictured appears to be of one-piece design.

They are not two piece.
The one with the brushed stainless decoration is not two piece. It's just a decoration.

 

[Besoeker]

We also have single gang boxes that don't require a plaster ring (mud ring).

That was a cooker outlet and a single socket.
We also have double gang and no mud ring.

 

[Besoeker]

Our system is a little cheaper and easier to deal with when it comes to repair because all the individual parts can be replaced without spending lots of money on materials.

The only parts I replaced were the surface fixings. No wiring, no boxes, no sheet rock, no mud rings.
Remove the old fixture and replace it with a new one.
And yes, the terminals are large enough to tee off for other sockets. That's how ring mains are done. No wire nuts required.

 

[growler]

And yes, the terminals are large enough to tee off for other sockets. That's how ring mains are done. No wire nuts required.

If you did tee off and useing something similar to #12 GA you could soon be over box fill according to our rules.

Those plaster rings are mostly used for commercial and not so much for residential. They work and are allowed but take more time to install and cost more than normal residential wiring methods.

What you were doing remodeling a kitchen was old work and plaster rings are for new construction (mostly commercial ).

 

[Besoeker]

If you did tee off and useing something similar to #12 GA you could soon be over box fill according to our rules.

One cable in. One cable out.

 

[Little Bill]

@Besoeker
Let me try......

As was mentioned, the "mud/plaster" rings are used mostly in commercial.

In residential, plastic boxes are the norm. When they are installed they are mounted so that about 1/2" is protruding out past the studs. (They are not flush with the studs)
This is so the drywall, that is 1/2" thick, will be flush with the box. It could also be 5/8" drywall.

In commercial, the boxes are not set protruding out past the studs. They are flush with the stud and are usually larger than single gang boxes, such as a 4" x 4" box. When the drywall is installed it would leave the box set back whatever the thickness of the drywall is and that is not allowed nor would it look good. So an appropriately sized mud ring is installed on the box. The opening of the mud ring that the device mounts to is now flush with the wall. The side flanges of the mud ring are covered by the drywall, leaving only the device opening showing.
The "mud or plaster" rings also come in more than a single gang size.

Maybe this will "un-mud" you some!

 

[Besoeker]

@Besoeker
Let me try......

As was mentioned, the "mud/plaster" rings are used mostly in commercial.

In residential, plastic boxes are the norm. When they are installed they are mounted so that about 1/2" is protruding out past the studs. (They are not flush with the studs)
This is so the drywall, that is 1/2" thick, will be flush with the box. It could also be 5/8" drywall.

In commercial, the boxes are not set protruding out past the studs. They are flush with the stud and are usually larger than single gang boxes, such as a 4" x 4" box. When the drywall is installed it would leave the box set back whatever the thickness of the drywall is and that is not allowed nor would it look good. So an appropriately sized mud ring is installed on the box. The opening of the mud ring that the device mounts to is now flush with the wall. The side flanges of the mud ring are covered by the drywall, leaving only the device opening showing.
The "mud or plaster" rings also come in more than a single gang size.

Maybe this will "un-mud" you some!

Clear as mud!

 

[Smart $]

Clear as mud!

So far you've made that perfectly clear. :angel::lol:

 

[Besoeker]

So far you've made that perfectly clear. :angel::lol:

Yes yes......
Again just not something we use here - at least as far as I'm aware.

 

[kwired]

One cable in. One cable out.

Yes, that is what I understand is most common in wiring systems there, plus raceways are not so common especially in dwelling wiring. You probably don't have the box fill issue too often because it is normally one cable in and one out, here you can sometimes get one in and maybe four out - making the volume used up by the conductors an issue, or with raceway methods you may have conductors passing through that have nothing to do with switches or outlets installed in that box - yet they take up some space as well.

 

[Besoeker]

Yes, that is what I understand is most common in wiring systems there, plus raceways are not so common especially in dwelling wiring. You probably don't have the box fill issue too often because it is normally one cable in and one out, here you can sometimes get one in and maybe four out - making the volume used up by the conductors an issue, or with raceway methods you may have conductors passing through that have nothing to do with switches or outlets installed in that box - yet they take up some space as well.

By raceway I assume you mean conduit or EMT. Not often used here.
I haven't dealt with in decades.

 

[jumper]

By raceway I assume you mean conduit or EMT. Not often used here.

Yes and other types for what kwired was stating, but what we call troughs, flexible conduits, and others are included in our NEC definition.

Raceway.
An enclosed channel of metallic or nonmetallic
materials designed expressly for holding wires, cables, or bus-
bars, with additional functions as permitted in this
Code
.

 

[kwired]

yes, raceway more or less is anything (listed for the purpose) that is usually tubular in nature, can be metallic or non metallic, flexible or rigid that you assemble and then pull individual conductors through.

Raceway is pretty much a NEC term.